A question about Swap Magic 3.8 Coder and TOC

[Ioskeha]

I've already posted this on another forum, but this one is way more active. So I'm going to re-post here.

So I made a backup of my copy of Star Ocean 3 so I could play the undubbed version. I noticed that once I got the game patched and everything that my image is a bit larger then the image of SM 3.8.

SO3-
TOC Information:
Session 1... (LBA: 0)
-> Track 01 (Mode 1, LBA: 0 - 2292911)
-> LeadOut (LBA: 2292912)

SM 3.8-
TOC Information:
Session 1... (LBA: 0)
-> Track 01 (Mode 1, LBA: 0 - 2282415)
-> LeadOut (LBA: 2282416)

My SO3 disc is larger then my SM 3.8, so I'm going to have problems playing this game from what I understand. I need to refresh the TOC. A quick google search lead me to the info I needed so I could refresh the TOC SM 3.8 uses.

So, I spent some time figuring out what my largest game is which happens to be Metal Gear Solid 2 (don't remember the numbers off of the top of my head, but it's a DVD9 disc).

I boot SM and wait for it to load. Once the boot menu comes up I removed my mod that's holding Sensor A down (not using any magic keys or crap like that; using a home made tool) and swap to my MGS2 disc then install my sensor A mod. Disc starts to spin, and.... it keeps spinning. It's been spinning for 30 mins now. What am I doing wrong?

Also, would it be better for me to play this game via ESR, or will I have the same problem that I'm having right now with the TOC not being large enough?

I'm on a v2.30 PS2, so Free McBoot isn't an option for me. Best I can do is boot uLE from memory card that's been renamed to SWAPMAGIC.ELF, then use uLE to boot ESR. If I remember right uLE has a way to refresh a TOC; I think you need disc control set to on or something?

[dlanor]

----- snip ----- re: cutting details of SM disc swapping

What am I doing wrong?

You are disc-swapping, which many consider an inherently wrong method...
(Only to be used as a last resort, when all else fails...)

Also, would it be better for me to play this game via ESR,

Yes.

will I have the same problem that I'm having right now with the TOC not being large enough?

The TOC-size issues do not exist at all for ESR backups.

I'm on a v2.30 PS2, so Free McBoot isn't an option for me. Best I can do is boot uLE from memory card that's been renamed to SWAPMAGIC.ELF, then use uLE to boot ESR.

That is exactly what I do too on my SCPH-90004 with bios v2.30, and "Star Ocean: 'Till the End of Time" (aka: "Star Ocean 3") boots perfectly as an ESR backup here.

If I remember right uLE has a way to refresh a TOC; I think you need disc control set to on or something?

That is not really related to the TOC issue of SwapMagic. It's just that you need it on in order for uLE to respond properly to inserted discs.

Best regards: dlanor

[Ioskeha]

Thanks for the fast reply dlanor!

I had a feeling that TOC didn't matter with ESR backups. Up until this last weekend I was using ESR for all my backup needs... until it stopped working for no reason. At the time I was playing DQ5. Put in 37 hours before ESR just stopped working for some reason. I have no idea why it stopped, and after a few days it started working again for no reason.

When I say it stopped working I mean that no matter what disc I tried to boot ESR just went to a pink screen. Even on backups that I knew worked 100%. At the time I was using the GUI version of ESR. Both GUI and non-GUI wouldn't work at all.

[dlanor]

Thanks for the fast reply dlanor!

I had a feeling that TOC didn't matter with ESR backups. Up until this last weekend I was using ESR for all my backup needs... until it stopped working for no reason. At the time I was playing DQ5. Put in 37 hours before ESR just stopped working for some reason. I have no idea why it stopped, and after a few days it started working again for no reason.

When I say it stopped working I mean that no matter what disc I tried to boot ESR just went to a pink screen. Even on backups that I knew worked 100%. At the time I was using the GUI version of ESR. Both GUI and non-GUI wouldn't work at all.

That sounds really weird, and the only reasonable explanation I can see is that you had some physical problem with your PS2 for some time, which then was corrected.

Exactly what it may have been is hard to say, but a badly seated MC can have all kinds of odd effects, for example. And once it gets reseated properly again (can happen without you noticing) there is no clue as to what went on.

Best regards: dlanor

[Ioskeha]

Yeah I don't know what the problem was. I thought my PS2's laser was dying (which would have really pissed me off my PS2 is less then 3 months old and has seen less then 200 hours of play-time). So I tried loading my backups with SM. Everything worked fine. I was able to load originals and backups. Just not ESR patched backups booted via ESR for a few days.

[kevstah2004]

My ESR backup of SmackDown! 2009 no longer works with ESR either when it did before, but it still works with swap magic, I put it down to the disc deteriorating and my ps2 laser not being able to correctly read the ESR sector anymore, it shows as a DVD-V in the ESR gui instead of a PS2DVD.

[Ioskeha]

Hey, dlanor. Are you sure about ESR not using a TOC at all? I'm not doubting your knowledge, you've been in this scene way longer then I have. I'm sure ESR doesn't use TOC like you said.

I only question because I'm having a different experience with ESR and disc sizes/format.

Like I said in my original post I need to use Swap Magic to boot uLE since my PS2 has v2.30 firmware. Free McBoot won't run on it sadly. I decided that I wanted to use my CD disc of Swap Magic to boot uLE for me so I can save on wear and tear on my DVD disc. uLE boots fine from the CD version of Swap Magic. Once uLE is booted I pull my Swap Magic CD out of my PS2 and put my backup in. Then I press Start on my controller to launch ESR. ESR goes through it's motions to boot the backup (meaning all the proper debug color codes display), then it goes to a blank screen. This is when I noticed that ESR wasn't reading the full disc content.

I have my system modded so I can run it with the tray open. So I watched ESR try to load my backup of SO3. It will only read about half of the DVD. The laser would get to about the middle of the disc then stop reading it. ESR will display a black screen while the disc keeps spinning.

If I use my DVD disc of Swap Magic to boot uLE, then launch ESR my backups load fine.

I guess my question is if ESR doesn't use TOC size at all then why can't I use my CD version of Swap Magic to boot uLE and launch ESR with a backup DVD?

I'm using uLE v4.42 and ESR beta r9b dvdv direct.elf if that matters at all. Both of them are located on mc0:.

[dlanor]

Hey, dlanor. Are you sure about ESR not using a TOC at all? I'm not doubting your knowledge, you've been in this scene way longer then I have. I'm sure ESR doesn't use TOC like you said.

Your question is a bit odd. Obviously any use of disc contents involves the TOC of that disc, so that was never in question.

The big difference is that when SwapMagic is to launch a backup disc it is utterly dependent on the boot disc (non-backup) having had a larger TOC than the backup disc has.

With ESR there is no such inherent dependency on a previous disc even having existed.
So on a console with FMCB installed you can even power-on the console with an ESR game backup in the tray and that backup disc will boot correctly, just like original discs. (unless FMCB is set to skip auto-booting of discs, which is one of its many options).

In your case that can't work, since you have bios v2.30 preventing FMCB boot, so you must still start with the SwapMagic boot disc at every power-on. But once you have booted into uLE, and assuming you have ESR installed, you can simply replace the SwapMagic disc with an ESR backup and use the uLE command "MISC/PS2Disc" to boot the game. And that booting will then be independent of the TOC of the earlier disc (SM3coder).

Just remember that since we are NOT using the SwapMagic swap methods for this, it is important to NOT block the disc sensors. They need to be active so that the PS2 can note the insertion of the ESR-patched disc, so as to use its TOC size (quite the opposite of the SM needs).

I only question because I'm having a different experience with ESR and disc sizes/format.

I think those problems are due to you still using SwapMagic sensor blocking, which is completely inappropriate for anything other than TOC-dependent swapping. (As the PS2 mechacon never notices the disc changes.)

Like I said in my original post I need to use Swap Magic to boot uLE since my PS2 has v2.30 firmware. Free McBoot won't run on it sadly.

Yes, I know. It is the same with my own SCPH-90004 (datecode 9C).

I decided that I wanted to use my CD disc of Swap Magic to boot uLE for me so I can save on wear and tear on my DVD disc. uLE boots fine from the CD version of Swap Magic. Once uLE is booted I pull my Swap Magic CD out of my PS2 and put my backup in. Then I press Start on my controller to launch ESR. ESR goes through it's motions to boot the backup (meaning all the proper debug color codes display), then it goes to a blank screen. This is when I noticed that ESR wasn't reading the full disc content.

I normally use the DVD boot disc (DVD read operations are faster), but in making this reply for you I made a simple test by using the CD disc of SM3coder to boot uLE from MC.

I then replaced the disc in the tray with an ESR backup disc of GT4 and closed the tray again, after which I waited for the disc detection status indicator of uLE (top left corner) to stabilize showing the proper response "Stop Disc == ESR DVD (off)", at which I pressed the gamepad button to which I have assigned the uLE command "MISC/PS2Disc". A few seconds later the game was booting normally. I saw no reason to prolong the test though, since even getting to the intro movies proves that I was not having your problem.

I have my system modded so I can run it with the tray open.

I think you have misunderstood what this really means.

That kind of sensor modification means that the PS2 CDVD mechacon will lose all ability to identify discs except just once after power-on or hard reset. This sensor blocking must be removed in order to safely use ESR (or video discs, audio discs, or anything other than SM-swapped backups)

So I watched ESR try to load my backup of SO3. It will only read about half of the DVD. The laser would get to about the middle of the disc then stop reading it. ESR will display a black screen while the disc keeps spinning.

If I use my DVD disc of Swap Magic to boot uLE, then launch ESR my backups load fine.

I guess my question is if ESR doesn't use TOC size at all then why can't I use my CD version of Swap Magic to boot uLE and launch ESR with a backup DVD?

Because your constant use of sensor blocking prevents normal TOC updates.

I'm using uLE v4.42 and ESR beta r9b dvdv direct.elf if that matters at all. Both of them are located on mc0:.

These things do not matter. This is a generic TOC problem caused by your constant sensor blocking.

If you do not use SM-style disc-swapping, then you should not use disc sensor blocking.

Best regards: dlanor

[Ioskeha]

Thanks again, dlanor!

It was indeed the sensor blocking that was stopping me from using my CD version of Swap Magic to boot uLE. I did read that before in the past when I was first getting started. That I shouldn't block my sensors if using uLE....I just forgot about it, so sorry for the n00b question. Felt really stupid reading your reply when I realized that this is info that I already knew. LOL

I think that about covers all my questions. I've been only playing off of backups for about a week now. At the start there was so much to learn, still is, that I started to get overwhelmed.

Oh wait! I do have one more question. I've been playing around with an idea in my head on how I can hook an IDE HDD to my slim. Doing a bit of research on IDE to Ethernet bridges I came across this here...

IDE/PATA to Ethernet Bridge Board, Network Storage Direct Attach Bridge Board - NDAS01-11 Ethernet Bridge board, Network Storage Direct Attach bridge board from DATOptic Inc

...problem is if I got that route I'd have to hard-mod my PS2, then most likely write drivers myself so the PS2 can detect it. Has anyone here tried something like this before? Just wanted to know before I spent hours and hours of my time, on top of a few new slim ps2s I'm sure, just to find out that it wouldn't work.

[dlanor]

I think that about covers all my questions. I've been only playing off of backups for about a week now. At the start there was so much to learn, still is, that I started to get overwhelmed.

Most of us have been there at one time or another, even if it was a long time ago now...

Oh wait! I do have one more question. I've been playing around with an idea in my head on how I can hook an IDE HDD to my slim. Doing a bit of research on IDE to Ethernet bridges I came across this here...

IDE/PATA to Ethernet Bridge Board, Network Storage Direct Attach Bridge Board - NDAS01-11 Ethernet Bridge board, Network Storage Direct Attach bridge board from DATOptic Inc

I really don't see how that network driven PATA interface can be used as a PS2 peripheral of any kind. What it appears to be is a highly specialized and extremely compact little computer acting as a file-sharing server, just like other and physically larger NAS units.

You can probably connect it to the PS2 through a LAN hub and use it for the PS2SMB fileshare of OPL, assuming that the server supports SMB (unclear from the linked page).

But you can never use it as an equivalent of the "hdd0:" of a PS2 with IDE HDD support.

...problem is if I got that route I'd have to hard-mod my PS2, then most likely write drivers myself so the PS2 can detect it. Has anyone here tried something like this before?

If you mean writing drivers that 'steal' the network port and dedicate it for an "hdd0:" emulator (though still having to do the transfers over ethernet, since that is how this hardware must connect), then NO. THis has not been done by anyone, nor should it be...

Not only would it work very badly, but it would also demand more complex work than it takes to build and install a complete PS2 HDD port from scratch.

Just wanted to know before I spent hours and hours of my time, on top of a few new slim ps2s I'm sure, just to find out that it wouldn't work.

The approach you described would not work in my opinion, but this doesn't mean that you can't use that hardware.

If it does support SMB, then it may be used as a fine miniature NAS unit, to provide OPL with an SMB fileshare for games, independently of using any 'real' computer.

Using it as a normal NAS unit is also one of the things suggested on the page you linked to, in a section starting with the words "DIY NAS".

Best regards: dlanor