Ghost 2 - A truly legal mod?

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Originally Posted by _zaphod_

well all x-box mod are pretty much BIOS replacements now, and most of them come flashed wiith the Cromwell Clean BIOS, which boots LInux, and doesn't boot games at all. It contains NO microsoft code of any kind. They are thus legal.

SO does the chip do ANYTHING before flashing? Does it boot homebrew without patching the BIOS?

It seems to me that run-time patching is legal, due to the fact that the change to the copyrighted code is temporary in nature. The game genie and the like are legal for the same reason. Now if the patching circumvent sprotection, then yes, said patching is illegal. But just because it performs run-time patching doesn't make it automatically illegal, no matter how copyrighted the code patched is! Just liek with a heat device, as soon as the power goes off, the copy goes away. If the chip itsel fpermanantly modified the BIOS, thenit would be illegal.

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Yes some argument there are very true.
What is important to understand there about G.2 and others mods:
G.2 can boot homebrew , like it's booting a recovery disc (a kind of cromwell flash bios on CD or FLashX, or like there is many on Xbox).
G.2 can boot homebrew with EEprom Flashed, or when it's Blank.
When it comes Blank (the way it comes when shipped to resellers, and from resellers to end users) the chip DO NO APPLY ANY PATCHING to CDVD/BIOS (you runtime theory was interresting, but on PS2mods, the patching always circumvent protection as it's needed to boot anything). Also unlike others, it didn't go AUTOMATICALLY in Recovery Mode. it will do absolutely nothing in itself at that stage.
You can use your PS2 like usual, no backup will boot or whatever changed.
The only activity G.2 will perform is about sending debug message through RS232 pads (TX,RX,GX) and only if user choose so.
User can use it for this, or decide to upgrade it.
Don't know if that debug interface was there to give a second true function to the device or if it was needed to help flash file developement, or both.
Anyway if they decide to upgrade it. It's their responsability to upgrade it with a legal flash file according to their country law, or with an illegal flash file. Not the reseller responsability, neither the chip maker as long as the device didn't circumvent any checks, means, it didn't apply any patch.
If user decide to go into flashing, he will have to manually do a trick (and not automatically, means constant patching on others chips or everytime disc is in)
as well as he must do for booting homebrew with G.2.

You can argue about why a device is doing a particular thing in a particular condition with a particular user who may want to put something in their flash.

but you can't argue for a device that is doing the same thing continuously in order for any one to boot something or any "homebrew"

I read something about PS1/PS2 , in a legal point of view, i would really prefer be sued for selling illegal device for PS1, than for PS2.

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Originally Posted by oldspirit2

I read something about PS1/PS2 , in a legal point of view, i would really prefer be sued for selling illegal device for PS1, than for PS2.

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Sheesh....better be careful for what you wish for. :crazy:

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Originally Posted by Unfinity

ok, after weeks of listening to oldspirit2's marketing bullshit about this lame "legal" chip, time to burst the bubble.

You spend so much time and energy telling your bullshit about how removing EEPROM/removing wires/whatever makes a chip legal. This is simply not true and will NOT hold up in court. "Manual tricks" don't matter. The law won't say "oh, you have to solder a jumper before it plays backup?! In that case this is a perfectly legal chip!". These are not stupid people we're talking about! They have millions of dollars to FIGHT these things with and you'd better believe they will check every nook and cranny.

Now that aside, let's take a look at why the whole Ghost 2 thing is more illegal than even Messiah 2 and such are.

Attached you'll find the "Recovery Disc" for this Ghost 2 chip, which at the time of this writing is available for download from the official Ghost 2 website at www.ghost2.net. If you extract the "MAIN.EXE" file from the disc image and search inside it with a hex-editor for the text "Sony" inside, you'll notice that it contains the following message "Library Programs (c) 1993-1997 Sony Computer Entertainment Inc., All Rights Reserved". Now why on earth do you suppose a legal application would have such a thing? :chinscrat Because it's written with ILLEGAL copyright library programs, of course. :oops: :doh:

Next time you want to try this shit, I suggest you guys put a little bit more thought into it. :rolleyes:

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We got a winner !
Some one discovered that FLASH FILE was illegal !! you got a biscuit !
OF course it's ILLEGAL ! you can't read any disclaimer ?
What are we talking about ?

We are talking about LEGALITY of a DEVICE, not about the FILE.
you think Crystal "magically hacked" file will be legal may be ? or DMS4 "magically hacked" file ?
it sounds you prefer to be treated like an idiot customer ? Oh .. but sorry i'm wrong ... as you re behind another mod, you prefer to treat customer like idiot ? and protect yourself with your backup and nice talking on your web site, while you kick ass in the background to release a hacked file ?

You can take all your argument back in your face, ex:
What will you said to the judge ? we didn't put the illegal flash file on our site, only on peer 2 peer, do not sued me please ? you're a joke !

Once again, YOU DIDN'T UNDERSTAND something:

ALL CHIPS MAKERS INCLUDING YOU, ARE PROTECTING THEIR ASS by not writing backups on their site, and not giving their flash file for direct download, etc.. claiming homebrew blah blah... while they will release them in peer 2 peer, or mail by mail. it's good for themself.
But THEIR DEVICE APPLY PATCH to CDVD and BIOS and SCEX and are there for ILLEGAL. It's a good fake to protect MAKER (but still a FAKE and it may worth even more in court) but it's ILLEGAL FOR RESELLERS. So you want everybody to buy, you don't care about their problems, and you go counting your $$ ?

G.2 is giving a flash file online with a dislaimer to read,
it's user choice and responsability to download and use that file or not all depends his country. G.2 will have several files including some legals in some country, some not, it's still user choice. the fact that a flash file for that or another particular device can be downloaded there, or later in forums, irc, or where ever you want didn't change the fact that THE DEVICE itself comes blank and in it's default legal state didn't apply any patch to CDVD, BIOS.
they are protecting RESELLERS and NOT THEM SELF.
That's the simple and easiest difference

Believe it or not, happy or not, it's like this. you can copy it !

Don't you see Xecuter product selling by thousands in system mods located in USA under DMCA laws, what is xecuter web site all about ? flash file, bios release, hack this, hack that. THE DEVICE IT SELF is LEGAL !
same here.

the company who own web site and who will get payment for G2 is may be located into a country where those file are legals, who knows ? probably not you !

Now if you want to go ahead into your bubble bursting hurry up, i have not a lot of patience and a lot to say if you push me wrong. So put your nuts on the table so we can all have some laugh.

You know who will be victorious at the end, they are the same you're fighting since a long time. so you wanna catch some matrix market, but a mile stones launch over your shoulder ? ..

YOu know what side...I think I've had just about enough of your ****ing propaganda spewing over the last 4 weeks talking about the legality of mods and what not.

Bottom line....you're not doing thing any better....Ooo...let's see...Let's post a flash update that's created using "Pirated Tools" for the purpose of....reflashing a chip to play backups. The fact of the matter that you are distributing works created with tools I'm pretty damn sure you didn't obtain legally is just 1 strike up your ally. Let's just open up the MAIN.EXE you've provided...oh look what it says "Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. for Japan area".

You really think Sony is not going to go after your ass, just because you provide a "blank" chip and distributing a flash that will boot backups? :crazy:

You've probably already put another strike against you or at least a red flag up to Sony by utilizing the "Messiah" name....yet another retarded move.

Tell you what....why don't you continue to peddle your goods off to Z. I'm sure you're already paying him enough to talk about it. :lol:

Also...Unfinity...I know you were trying to prove a point....but because it does contain copyrighted stuff...I don't want that stuff here. I changed your attachment to a link where people can view it themselves.

Where the hell are all these chips coming from?

Hello ps2-scene first post long time reader,

I have wondered about the mfg process of chips, seening how a new brand pops up each day just about ;) what does it take to develope a prototype with off the shelf components and send it to a plant in asia or eastern euro with a small run 100k+ or so? Require a EE? Team of EE's? If someone would care to inform me that would be great, I find this quite interesting.

Thanks for your time.

modchip legality is same stupid thing like plastic metal made from wood ...
i mean modchips is not problem ... problem is black ... milion $ modchiping industry in background

The whole discussion about the ghost2 chip is quite strange... However, please listen to my two cents now. I am not intending to pursue the debate afterward, I just want to say some things.


Okay, first, let me sum up some arguments I have saw from that oldspirit2 guy (aka side? I haven't followed)

I think I saw "Chip that boot only homebrew and didn't patch CDVD/BIOS and SCEX at all, but you can get a compatible flash file that may be illegal in some country in their web site, but remains an USER choice and responsability to download/use it." --> I see "I don't patch SCEX", right ? Well, but, you still let the user the opportunity to manually send some signal there. So, does it patch SCEX or doesn'it ? A chip that patch SCEX 1% of the time is STILL patching SCEX. Moreover, doing this enables PS1 backup booting, right ? So, well, yes, your modchip doesn't allow "automatic PS1 backup booting", and so was doing the messiah, the magic, the dms3, etc... Everytime, it required a manual "clicking" on the reset or eject or anything else. So does your modchip: it allows the user to boot PS1 backups.

You then reply to that "I read something about PS1/PS2 , in a legal point of view, i would really prefer be sued for selling illegal device for PS1, than for PS2." That is a pretty strange reply to me. You then admit it IS an illegal device... for PS1. So, now, the whole PS1 over PS2 market (comparing the number of titles I mean) is what... ? 50/50 ? So, your modchip is half legal then ? Or half illegal :)


Finally, I read some really strange argument: "Some one discovered that FLASH FILE was illegal !! you got a biscuit ! OF course it's ILLEGAL ! you can't read any disclaimer ?". Sorry but, I really laughed out loud when I saw that. You directly say "Hey, I am not selling illegal hardware. But I am offering illegal software for it." And protecting behind a disclaimer won't help you that much I think... you say something like "You must act accordingly to the laws of your country!", but, just after, you say the countrary: "The intended purpose of our Electronic Device Products is to allow you to use your game console to play homebrew software, 3rd party software, imports and backups of software that you legally own or developed by yourself, for preservation, maintenance and servicing purposes which is allowed by the law." --> NO, backups is NOT allowed by the law, at least, in the UK. Confusing I'd say...

So, you're not pushing yourself in the illegal side of the law on the hardware point of view, but on the software point of view ? I have to tell you something: you are NOT the law. I mean, you keep telling us the same things like "doing THIS is illegal, doing THAT is illegal, etc...". But, who decide what is legal and what isn't ? And the legality notion can vary drastically from one country to another. So, you are still not safe here: you can still get in court for offering free download of illegal software, made illegally using SONY's PS1 SDK.



Final word: you say like "a modchip which is sending patches to bios, or whatever, is illegal; mine is legal because it doesn't (unless the user request it)". So, why does your modchip have soldering points to bios and scex ? Ah, because the user may request it. Okay, that sounds pretty much the same as the car "boosting" upgrades. You have a switch near you that can ignite a different (illegal) gas melange to your engine, suddenly boosting your speed. That special upgrade has been declared illegal. And the "but it is illegal only when the user requests it" argument hasn't counted. Okay, you can still argue that the case of a modchip with different functions and features is maybe not the same thing, but, please, keep your arguments for the court, not for us.



Et par pitié, arrête de sortir les mêmes arguments encore et toujours; tu te répètes, et ça commence Ã* devenir lassant :)

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Originally Posted by Pixel

The whole discussion about the ghost2 chip is quite strange... However, please listen to my two cents now. I am not intending to pursue the debate afterward, I just want to say some things.


Okay, first, let me sum up some arguments I have saw from that oldspirit2 guy (aka side? I haven't followed)

I think I saw "Chip that boot only homebrew and didn't patch CDVD/BIOS and SCEX at all, but you can get a compatible flash file that may be illegal in some country in their web site, but remains an USER choice and responsability to download/use it." --> I see "I don't patch SCEX", right ? Well, but, you still let the user the opportunity to manually send some signal there. So, does it patch SCEX or doesn'it ? A chip that patch SCEX 1% of the time is STILL patching SCEX. Moreover, doing this enables PS1 backup booting, right ? So, well, yes, your modchip doesn't allow "automatic PS1 backup booting", and so was doing the messiah, the magic, the dms3, etc... Everytime, it required a manual "clicking" on the reset or eject or anything else. So does your modchip: it allows the user to boot PS1 backups.

You then reply to that "I read something about PS1/PS2 , in a legal point of view, i would really prefer be sued for selling illegal device for PS1, than for PS2." That is a pretty strange reply to me. You then admit it IS an illegal device... for PS1. So, now, the whole PS1 over PS2 market (comparing the number of titles I mean) is what... ? 50/50 ? So, your modchip is half legal then ? Or half illegal :)


Finally, I read some really strange argument: "Some one discovered that FLASH FILE was illegal !! you got a biscuit ! OF course it's ILLEGAL ! you can't read any disclaimer ?". Sorry but, I really laughed out loud when I saw that. You directly say "Hey, I am not selling illegal hardware. But I am offering illegal software for it." And protecting behind a disclaimer won't help you that much I think... you say something like "You must act accordingly to the laws of your country!", but, just after, you say the countrary: "The intended purpose of our Electronic Device Products is to allow you to use your game console to play homebrew software, 3rd party software, imports and backups of software that you legally own or developed by yourself, for preservation, maintenance and servicing purposes which is allowed by the law." --> NO, backups is NOT allowed by the law, at least, in the UK. Confusing I'd say...

So, you're not pushing yourself in the illegal side of the law on the hardware point of view, but on the software point of view ? I have to tell you something: you are NOT the law. I mean, you keep telling us the same things like "doing THIS is illegal, doing THAT is illegal, etc...". But, who decide what is legal and what isn't ? And the legality notion can vary drastically from one country to another. So, you are still not safe here: you can still get in court for offering free download of illegal software, made illegally using SONY's PS1 SDK.



Final word: you say like "a modchip which is sending patches to bios, or whatever, is illegal; mine is legal because it doesn't (unless the user request it)". So, why does your modchip have soldering points to bios and scex ? Ah, because the user may request it. Okay, that sounds pretty much the same as the car "boosting" upgrades. You have a switch near you that can ignite a different (illegal) gas melange to your engine, suddenly boosting your speed. That special upgrade has been declared illegal. And the "but it is illegal only when the user requests it" argument hasn't counted. Okay, you can still argue that the case of a modchip with different functions and features is maybe not the same thing, but, please, keep your arguments for the court, not for us.



Et par pitié, arrête de sortir les mêmes arguments encore et toujours; tu te répètes, et ça commence Ã* devenir lassant :)

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nice counter argument :)

as for the guy wanting to know how quick to produce modchips are once a proto is designed a simple gerber file is all that's needed the gerber is the pcb schemetic the board's get's etched the components get fluxed and soldered simple.

first, can someone unban oldspirit

i think he has gone through enough humiliation for the time being.
My personal opinion is that his arguement is absolutely ridiculous. There is no true reasoning to it. Even other mod groups upgrades are more legal than the ghost flashes simply for the fact that it uses the official Sony PSX SDK to build them and then having them freely available on his website. What will happen if sony caught light of the situation and simply sent a cease and desist order to remove the flash files from the site? Even if the flashes themselves were only to run homebrew they would never stand up in any court. Not only can sony sue for publically aiding in piracy but also for copyright infringement in your flash files. Kinda seems as if this mod is even more illegal than the other so called legal mods making their way into the scene.

On another note, anyone notice the alliance between Mr. DMS sjeep/filterX whatever he wants to call himself these days and Z? Thats some truly sad and pathetic stuff there. I still remember the time Z leaked PSMS. How sad to see how money changes people. :(