Is it possible to access a uLE +Partition via USB 2.0 on a HDL formated HDD?

[urmele]

Maybe this is a stupid question (i guess it is),
but i still wanna know if it might be possible somehow to transfer
some stuff to a HDL formated HDD +Partition from PC (USB 2.0).

I mean, Winhiip can copy games from the PC to the HDD,
shouldn't there also be a way to copy other stuff to a +Partition as well?

[urmele]

Ahmm..to make it a little bit more clear what i had in mind:

Winhiip creates Game Partitions and stores the games there,
so what i was thinking about is, that those game partitions
must have some sort of similarity to the + partitions, otherwise it won't work.
Maybe it is possible to just create an image of all the stuff you would like to tranfer to a plus partition and then transfer it via some sort of software,
but instead to create a game partition, the software creates a + partition.

That way you could make use of the full speed of USB 2.0

But maybe i am totally wrong here hehehe never mind

[dlsmd]

someone hda started to wright a pice of software but it was more of an hdd corrupter then a file copier

[dlanor]

Ahmm..to make it a little bit more clear what i had in mind:

Winhiip creates Game Partitions and stores the games there,
so what i was thinking about is, that those game partitions
must have some sort of similarity to the + partitions, otherwise it won't work.

First I must correct your mistake in confusing partition types with filesystem types. Sony's PS2 HDD partitioning scheme allows for three different partition types.

System partitions with mandatory "__" prefix for the names
Application partitions with no mandatory prefix. (But still often using "PP." prefix.)
User partitions with mandatory "+" prefix for the names

Any one of these three partition types may contain custom filesystems of any kind whatever, though the one intended for use with normal file storage (as opposed to commercial games) is the PFS filesystem, which is also supported in the uLE FileBrowser.

Commercial games are always installed by non-PFS methods which can vary from game to game, and the Sony methods for doing these things differ from ALL existing homebrew methods.

As for similiarities between HDL-installed games and normal PFS partitions, the 'Some similarity' you hoped for in this case extends only to similar access functions for primitive raw sector access. There is no similarity at all in the filesystem implementation, as HDL games use a custom format specifically to store a game ISO plus some HDL-specific header info.

Maybe it is possible to just create an image of all the stuff you would like to tranfer to a plus partition and then transfer it via some sort of software,
but instead to create a game partition, the software creates a + partition.

Of course it is possible to invent such formats, but the current implementation of HDL (or OPL) is not able to use them.

That way you could make use of the full speed of USB 2.0

I'm not quite sure what you mean here. When installing HDL games through a good USB-to-IDE adaptor using WinHiip you already can use USB 2.0 speed, and if you don't quite reach the speed maximum, it is still a whole lot faster than pumping installation data over network with HDL_Dump.

My own rule in this is that for a single game I never bother to remove the internal drive, and sometimes not for a pair of games either. So for those cases I use HDL_Dump over network. But if I need to install more than two games then I always remove the HDD from the PS2 and use WinHiip to do it through my USB-to-PATA/SATA adaptor.

But maybe i am totally wrong here hehehe never mind

You are totally wrong in the sense that existing HDL software can not use such a new PFS-based format, as it differs too much from the custom format HDL was designed to use.

But you are correct in the sense that it might have been better if HDL had been designed to use PFS partitions with normal ISO files holding the games. That would have made many things so much easier, which is exactly why the creators avoided doing this. They did NOT want to make it easier for others to understand and thus to imitate their commercial product.

This is one of the HUGE differences in project focus between commercial projects and the freeware homebrew projects we usually work with on this site. For them the commercial profitability in all its aspects is the only thing that matters, which is no factor at all to us, who only evaluate project decisions based on their technical and practical merit.

Best regards: dlanor

[urmele]

@dlanor,
Thanks for the detailed information

Any one of these three partition types may contain custom filesystems of any kind whatever, though the one intended for use with normal file storage (as opposed to commercial games) is the PFS filesystem, which is also supported in the uLE FileBrowser.

I am aware of this, i just mentioned the + partition in case of all the partition
types which are able to contain normal file storage.

I'm not quite sure what you mean here. When installing HDL games through a good USB-to-IDE adaptor using WinHiip you already can use USB 2.0 speed, and if you don't quite reach the speed maximum, it is still a whole lot faster than pumping installation data over network with HDL_Dump.

It's not about installing games, it's about to copy normal files via USB2.0
to a HDL formatted drive (i always get annoyed, when i transfer some movies or music to it, no matter what method i use, it's very slow).

This is one of the HUGE differences in project focus between commercial projects and the freeware homebrew projects we usually work with on this site. For them the commercial profitability in all its aspects is the only thing that matters, which is no factor at all to us, who only evaluate project decisions based on their technical and practical merit.

Please correct me if i'm wrong, but somehow i feel some sort of antipathy
against my idea to build an adapter with 2xHDD + External USB connection and sell it
commercial.

I totally agree with the rules on this site!
And i already have posted a tut how to build in 2HDD's with an USB adapter
so everybody with the skill, equipment and the right materials can rebuild it.
But that's a hell lot of work.

And for the Plug and Play solution, there is no way for a normal person to
easily rebuild it, the only possible way is to let it manufacture.

If i do so, i need to invest a lot of money and time and if i don't get some
sort of coppy rights for it, somebody will pick up the work and get the
coppy rights them self (like it happened often in the past). In that case the price will raise and i won't be allowed to sell it any more (even so i will have a great stock, because manufacturing this in small peaces is nearly impossible).

You see, if i do it, i need to do it right or the adapter will never exist!
And what's wrong with the idea to provide the PS2 world with a new nice gadget?
Therefore i really would appreciate it to get some help here on this matter.
(Maybe i can find somebody who can translate English to Chinese
for me, it would be a great help hehehe ).


Best Regards,
urmele

[dlanor]

It's not about installing games, it's about to copy normal files via USB2.0
to a HDL formatted drive (i always get annoyed, when i transfer some movies or music to it, no matter what method i use, it's very slow).

Then the answer is simpler, as there exists no software at all for a PC to allow safe copying of normal files and folders to a standard PFS partition. The only attempts to make such a program that I am aware of resulted in an HDD-eating monster... (Prone to corrupt all partitions, including such that were not involved in its work.)

Please correct me if i'm wrong, but somehow i feel some sort of antipathy
against my idea to build an adapter with 2xHDD + External USB connection and sell it
commercial.

Not at all. But it is a general antipathy against various policies applied to nearly all commercially developed projects, with total secrecy about construction and software details and where all further support is normally dropped as soon as they calculate that further efforts would show a lower profit than investing those efforts elsewhere would do.

I totally agree with the rules on this site!

Sure, what of it ?
I wasn't coming down on you for any rule infractions, or anything else for that matter.

And for the Plug and Play solution, there is no way for a normal person to
easily rebuild it, the only possible way is to let it manufacture.

Sure, and I have nothing against that.

I'm just saying that once a product is owned by a company making and selling it only for profit, they will provide only the bare minimum of support for that product as required to keep it selling. This is just how such things work in our day and age I'm afraid.

I was only making the comparison to emphasize how that limitation does not apply in any way to freeware homebrew projects, like most of the stuff developed here at psx-scene, where all support is provided on a volunteer basis without any profit-motives.

If i do so, i need to invest a lot of money and time and if i don't get some
sort of coppy rights for it, somebody will pick up the work and get the
coppy rights them self (like it happened often in the past). In that case the price will raise and i won't be allowed to sell it any more (even so i will have a great stock, because manufacturing this in small peaces is nearly impossible).

You see, if i do it, i need to do it right or the adapter will never exist!

I understand all of this perfectly and I have no problem with it.

And what's wrong with the idea to provide the PS2 world with a new nice gadget?

I never said that there was anything wrong with it.

You seem to have missed one crucial fact of my previous post, which is that the commercial project I was referring to there was in fact HDLoader, not your new stuff...

But much of what I said does apply to nearly all commercial projects and products.

Best regards: dlanor