Buying a PS2 - Can't decide between soft/hard mod

Hey guys, after many many years, I have finally decided to get a PS2. For the past few days I have been reading A LOT of information on this site and the links to others and It's alot to take in, so I thought I'd make a thread and ask for some help. Sorry if this has been asked too many times, but like I said, I've read so many threads and my head is spinning.

Anyway, the 2 options I have been considering are:

1. Getting a local modder to install a Modbo 4.0 modchip
Or
2. Buying a memory card off that same modder and paying him a bit extra to install Free McBoot onto it.

The PS2 I will be buying will either be a pre-owned PS2 slim from EB Games for FMCB (I'l ask to look at the console to make sure it isn't the newest versions that can't be used with FMCB) or a brand new console for the Modbo.

Basically, the main thing I want to do is play NTSC games (I live in Australia and it's pretty hard to find the games I want these days), probably backups too since the games I will buy will be used and I dont want to ruin the discs even more.

My question is, out of the 2 options, which has the best compatibility with PS2 games? I think I read somewhere that FMCB has something like an 85% compatibility for games, but I thought it would be best to ask here.

Also, I read about Open PS2 Loader, am I correct in thinking that if I have FMCB on a memory card, thats all I need to use OPL? I ask because being able to play games off the network sounds absolutely awesome.

Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it.

Rick.

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Originally Posted by rickp2006

Hey guys, after many many years, I have finally decided to get a PS2. For the past few days I have been reading A LOT of information on this site and the links to others and It's alot to take in, so I thought I'd make a thread and ask for some help. Sorry if this has been asked too many times, but like I said, I've read so many threads and my head is spinning.

Anyway, the 2 options I have been considering are:

1. Getting a local modder to install a Modbo 4.0 modchip
Or
2. Buying a memory card off that same modder and paying him a bit extra to install Free McBoot onto it.

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In principle we are against people making a profit off FMCB installs, but if his extra charge for doing it is cheaper than postage and packing for sending your MC off for install by someone in our installer volunteer group, then I suppose it would make sense for you to choose the local method, provided you can trust the guy.

Whatever install method you choose, I definitely recommend using FMCB rather than a physical modchip, since FMCB allows your console to maintain 100% compatibility to an unmodded PS2. And that is something which no modchip in existence can match.

I own four PS2 consoles myself, and have a modchip in only one of them, this being my oldest console which I acquired for development purposes long before FMCB existed. At present I would not recommend anyone to get a modchip, not even for the newest PSTwo models that can't use FMCB. With those I use a combination of SwapMagic+uLE and ESR+OPL, the first pair for booting homebrew from MC and the second pair for running backup games from burned CDVD discs, from USB drives, and over LAN from a PC.

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The PS2 I will be buying will either be a pre-owned PS2 slim from EB Games for FMCB (I'l ask to look at the console to make sure it isn't the newest versions that can't be used with FMCB) or a brand new console for the Modbo.

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All models with an SCPH-xxxxx number less than 90000 will work fine with FMCB, and of those numbered SCPH-900xx all those with datecode less than 8C will also work fine with FMCB.

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Basically, the main thing I want to do is play NTSC games (I live in Australia and it's pretty hard to find the games I want these days), probably backups too since the games I will buy will be used and I dont want to ruin the discs even more.

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That is how we all play games here nowdays. I can't even recall when last I used an original disc, other than in making a backup ISO on one of my PCs (which I do ASAP whenever I've bought another PS2 game).

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My question is, out of the 2 options, which has the best compatibility with PS2 games?

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That is a matter of opinion and a judgement call combined, and my own conclusion on the matter is that the FMCB softmod offers better basic compatibility, though the compatibility in actually running games is also dependent on the main backup game systems of ESR and OPL.

ESR is already very close to perfect, with compatibility ratings over 95% (I'm not sure of the exact value, but would not be surprised if it's even over 99%).

OPL has somewhat lower compatibility as yet, but is improving daily (and I mean that literally), with no end of those improvements in sight yet.

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I think I read somewhere that FMCB has something like an 85% compatibility for games, but I thought it would be best to ask here.

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That is absurd, since FMCB is only a method of booting the console into homebrew programs. It's ability to run original games is completely unaffected by this, so that remains at a 100% compatibility rating (unlike any modded console).

Running backups is another matter, and is entirely dependent on the method for running backups that you use. Here a normal modchip can compare only with the booting of burned ESR discs, since booting of burned backup discs is the only backup game method intrinsic to normal modchips. And for that purpose I consider ESR equal to a modchip. Sure there are some very few games that fail with ESR, but in my opinion those games are fewer than those that have working anti-modchip code. Thus I consider ESR the winner of that contest.

For other backup use we can only discuss the DMS4pro modchip, since that is the only chip with its own backup method ToxicOS (for internal HDD of a fat PS2 with network adaptor). And for such use I consider the homebrew OPL to be by far superior. Not least because it is capable of running virtually all ToxicOS-installed games, but also because it supports games on other media as well, including both USB drives and SMB access to a PC.

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Also, I read about Open PS2 Loader, am I correct in thinking that if I have FMCB on a memory card, thats all I need to use OPL?

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Yes, and that is the kind of use I referred to above. But in practice you will probably find that you also want some other homebrews for other purposes, such as the media player SMS and uLaunchELF which is a generic console maintenance program, including such features as multi-device FileBrowser, HddManager, TextEditor, JpgViewer, and a multi-purpose homebrew launch menu, just to mention some of the major features.

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I ask because being able to play games off the network sounds absolutely awesome.

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It is indeed. I seldom run PS2 games in any other way nowdays.

Best regards: dlanor

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Originally Posted by dlanor

In principle we are against people making a profit off FMCB installs, but if his extra charge for doing it is cheaper than postage and packing for sending your MC off for install by someone in our installer volunteer group, then I suppose it would make sense for you to choose the local method, provided you can trust the guy.

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I guess I can understand that, he is a pretty trustworthy modder, he has helped me alot with Wii stuff, plus he mentioned (and its mentioned on his website) that FMCB is completely free and linked to the skapps site and said he only charges for the memory card and time taken to install. Im not sure how much it would cost for postage, but I dont think I'd save much more.

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Whatever install method you choose, I definitely recommend using FMCB rather than a physical modchip, since FMCB allows your console to maintain 100% compatibility to an unmodded PS2. And that is something which no modchip in existence can match.

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Not sure if I interpreted that correctly, but are you saying that installing a mod chip can actually stop running some original games?

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That is a matter of opinion and a judgement call combined, and my own conclusion on the matter is that the FMCB softmod offers better basic compatibility, though the compatibility in actually running games is also dependent on the main backup game systems of ESR and OPL.

ESR is already very close to perfect, with compatibility ratings over 95% (I'm not sure of the exact value, but would not be surprised if it's even over 99%).

OPL has somewhat lower compatibility as yet, but is improving daily (and I mean that literally), with no end of those improvements in sight yet.

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Wow, It's that high, I didn't know that, I'll almost certainly be using FMCB it looks like.

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That is absurd, since FMCB is only a method of booting the console into homebrew programs. It's ability to run original games is completely unaffected by this, so that remains at a 100% compatibility rating (unlike any modded console).

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Sorry, I dont think I made myself clear enough, I meant the compatibility of backups/imports. Which you cleared for me above.

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Running backups is another matter, and is entirely dependent on the method for running backups that you use. Here a normal modchip can compare only with the booting of burned ESR discs, since booting of burned backup discs is the only backup game method intrinsic to normal modchips. And for that purpose I consider ESR equal to a modchip. Sure there are some very few games that fail with ESR, but in my opinion those games are fewer than those that have working anti-modchip code. Thus I consider ESR the winner of that contest.

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Ah I see, in that case I agree, ESR seems to be the better option.

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For other backup use we can only discuss the DMS4pro modchip, since that is the only chip with its own backup method ToxicOS (for internal HDD of a fat PS2 with network adaptor). And for such use I consider the homebrew OPL to be by far superior. Not least because it is capable of running virtually all ToxicOS-installed games, but also because it supports games on other media as well, including both USB drives and SMB access to a PC.

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Well for me the only option for USB/SMB/HDD stuff will be FMCB and the other apps, since the only mod chip that the modder close to me sells is the Modbo 4.0.

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Yes, and that is the kind of use I referred to above. But in practice you will probably find that you also want some other homebrews for other purposes, such as the media player SMS and uLaunchELF which is a generic console maintenance program, including such features as multi-device FileBrowser, HddManager, TextEditor, JpgViewer, and a multi-purpose homebrew launch menu, just to mention some of the major features.

It is indeed. I seldom run PS2 games in any other way nowdays.

Best regards: dlanor

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It is unlikely I will use any of that stuff, the only thing I plan to use the PS2 for is to play PS2 games, speficially the huge amount of JRPGs that I missed out on and have never been able to play.

Thanks for all the help dlanor, much appreciated. It is likely I'll go the FMCB route unless someone else can convince me otherwise.

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Originally Posted by rickp2006

I guess I can understand that, he is a pretty trustworthy modder, he has helped me alot with Wii stuff, plus he mentioned (and its mentioned on his website) that FMCB is completely free and linked to the skapps site and said he only charges for the memory card and time taken to install. Im not sure how much it would cost for postage, but I dont think I'd save much more.

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Then he may be one of the many good guys that we have no major objection against.

If he truly charged only for the memory card, then he would be working on exactly the same terms as our volunteers. But since he also charges for install time (which our guys don't) he can be considered to make some small profit there.

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Not sure if I interpreted that correctly, but are you saying that installing a mod chip can actually stop running some original games?

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Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. Game manufacturers are well aware that some people use modchips to run copied games that they don't own, and therefore consider it fair to block games from running when a modchip is detected.

But of course modchip designers are also aware of those blocks, so who wins out is sort of an alternating series. Game makers can always find some way to block the previous generations of modchips, while the modchip makers can always find some way for a new chip to circumvent old modchip detection methods of previous game generations.

But effective blocks are quite rare.

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Wow, It's that high, I didn't know that, I'll almost certainly be using FMCB it looks like.

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FMCB is in my opinion the best way to boot homebrews on a PS2 that we ever had, all modchips included. And combined with ESR they replace most traditional modchip use.

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Ah I see, in that case I agree, ESR seems to be the better option.

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For physical game discs, I certainly think so.

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Well for me the only option for USB/SMB/HDD stuff will be FMCB and the other apps, since the only mod chip that the modder close to me sells is the Modbo 4.0.

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In all fairness it should also be said that most of the homebrew stuff I mentioned can also be used when booting by other methods than FMCB, such as that Modbo chip.

That could be used with Dev1 or Dev2 booting to start uLaunchELF which in turn could be used as launch center for all the other stuff.

But in such use the Modbo chip only replaces the FMCB component and (optionally) the ESR component. And why waste money and effort on installing a hardware chip to do the same work that can be done by free software ?

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It is unlikely I will use any of that stuff, the only thing I plan to use the PS2 for is to play PS2 games, speficially the huge amount of JRPGs that I missed out on and have never been able to play.

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Even so, and even for a pure gamer, there are some tasks of system maintenance, as well as of gamesave backup handling, that will require additional tools such as uLaunchELF has.

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Thanks for all the help dlanor, much appreciated. It is likely I'll go the FMCB route unless someone else can convince me otherwise.

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You're of course free to choose either way. But for my own use that choice is already made, using FMCB for all consoles I can. I even have it installed for a console with modchip, so I can disable the modchip and still boot homebrews.

Best regards: dlanor

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Originally Posted by dlanor

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. Game manufacturers are well aware that some people use modchips to run copied games that they don't own, and therefore consider it fair to block games from running when a modchip is detected.

But of course modchip designers are also aware of those blocks, so who wins out is sort of an alternating series. Game makers can always find some way to block the previous generations of modchips, while the modchip makers can always find some way for a new chip to circumvent old modchip detection methods of previous game generations.

But effective blocks are quite rare.

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Well that is interesting, I dont think I'll bother with the modchip, it costs almost double anyway since it takes a while to install.

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Even so, and even for a pure gamer, there are some tasks of system maintenance, as well as of gamesave backup handling, that will require additional tools such as uLaunchELF has.

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Just to make sure, how easy is it to install the rest of the programs I need, such as OPL and this uLaunchELF thing? I ask because I'm pretty sure the modder I know only installs FMCB, since the little tutorial on his site says to use ESR to patch the ISO's. I hope all these programs dont need specific things like FMCB does, because that will be a problem for me I think.

Although, even if I can't install the other programs myself, I think FMCB and ESR is still better than a modchip, so ill probably go with that anyway.

Once again, thanks for the help dlanor, hopefully in a few days I'll finally be able to play the previous FF games and the other tonne of games I havent played.

Rick.

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Originally Posted by rickp2006

Well that is interesting, I dont think I'll bother with the modchip, it costs almost double anyway since it takes a while to install.

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True, but there is one thing they offer which FMCB does not, so you might want to consider it anyway. (I guess I should have clarified this earlier.)

The methods of FMCB and the backup game launchers we use only work for PS2 software.
But PS1 games are not PS2 software. They do not even execute using the same processor.

The PS1 processor is similar to the slave IO processor of a PS2 (aka: "IOP"), and for PS1 games that slave processor will take over, instead of the normal main processor of the PS2 (aka: "EE"). And in that takeover all existing homebrews will die, for the duration of that game session (until the next hard reset)...

So for running PS1 backup games, you would still need a physical modchip.

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Just to make sure, how easy is it to install the rest of the programs I need, such as OPL and this uLaunchELF thing? I ask because I'm pretty sure the modder I know only installs FMCB, since the little tutorial on his site says to use ESR to patch the ISO's.

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On the contrary. Since he recommends using the ESR patcher to patch game ISOs before burning the backup discs, he must have installed the ESR driver as well as FMCB itself, or such ESR patching of ISOs would be meaningless. FMCB itself can do nothing with a backup disc, except to invoke the ESR program to handle it, so that must also be installed.

Most likely this guy uses one of the standard 'noobie' install packages for FMCB, which normally include four programs in addition to FMCB itself, as follows:

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uLaunchELF => allows generic maintenance of most PS2 stuff using various built-in tools
ESR        => allows any PS2/PSTwo console to run backup games from DVD-R discs
SMS        => Advanced media player for MP3/MPG/AVI media files
HDLoader  => allows PS2 consoles with IDE HDD to run backup games from HDD

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I hope all these programs dont need specific things like FMCB does, because that will be a problem for me I think.

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Their basic needs should be covered by the install normally, but as long as you have uLaunchELF it is no big deal anyway. You can easily copy anything you please to the MC with the uLE FileBrowser, and use a FAT32 formatted USB stick to move stuff from a PC to the PS2 for such copying.

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Although, even if I can't install the other programs myself, I think FMCB and ESR is still better than a modchip, so ill probably go with that anyway.

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For PS2 stuff, both games and homebrews, that is so.
But I forgot to mention in earlier posts that this does not extend to PS1 games as well.

The only homebrew PS1 emulator that exists for a PS2 is still in an early development stage, unable to reach full game speed or even to generate any sounds, so that is not an option. And the built-in PS1 driver of the PS2 firmware does not work with backups unless one uses disc-swapping methods that harm both drive and discs. So for PS1 games you would need a physical modchip for best results.

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Once again, thanks for the help dlanor, hopefully in a few days I'll finally be able to play the previous FF games and the other tonne of games I havent played.

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If by 'previous FF games' you mean the PS1 releases, then I have to back off from some of my previous advice, as the softmods will not help for doing that. To conveniently use PS1 games you will need a physical modchip, or use a PS1 emulator on a PC, which many prefer.

Again, sorry for not clarifying the PS1 situation earlier. I just forgot about it...

Best regards: dlanor

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Originally Posted by dlanor

On the contrary. Since he recommends using the ESR patcher to patch game ISOs before burning the backup discs, he must have installed the ESR driver as well as FMCB itself, or such ESR patching of ISOs would be meaningless. FMCB itself can do nothing with a backup disc, except to invoke the ESR program to handle it, so that must also be installed.

Most likely this guy uses one of the standard 'noobie' install packages for FMCB

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Oh I see, that's good then. Just to clarify though, is it possible to install FMCB without uLaunchELF? Or any way to install OPL without uLaunchELF? I ask because I'm certain he doesn't install OPL, it's just the basic stuff as you said, and I'm not 100% sure if he even install's uLaunch if he doesn't need too (I'll call him later to clarify), which I'm pretty sure I'll need when I want to install OPL.

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For PS2 stuff, both games and homebrews, that is so.
But I forgot to mention in earlier posts that this does not extend to PS1 games as well.

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That's fine, I have no intention to play PS1 games, they are a little too dated for me.

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If by 'previous FF games' you mean the PS1 releases, then I have to back off from some of my previous advice, as the softmods will not help for doing that. To conveniently use PS1 games you will need a physical modchip, or use a PS1 emulator on a PC, which many prefer.

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Nah, just FFX/FFXII, I find the PS1 games a little too old. If I did want to play them, I'd probably use a PS1 emulator as well.

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Again, sorry for not clarifying the PS1 situation earlier. I just forgot about it...

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No need to be sorry, you have helped me alot, I'm very appreciative of that, so thank you very much.

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Originally Posted by rickp2006

Oh I see, that's good then. Just to clarify though, is it possible to install FMCB without uLaunchELF? Or any way to install OPL without uLaunchELF? I ask because I'm certain he doesn't install OPL, it's just the basic stuff as you said, and I'm not 100% sure if he even install's uLaunch if he doesn't need too (I'll call him later to clarify), which I'm pretty sure I'll need when I want to install OPL.

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If he doesn't even install uLE, then he can hardly call it a proper install, since uLaunchELF is the main console maintenance tool of this kind of setup.

Btw: The proper abbreviation of uLaunchELF is uLE, so when you see that abbreviation it always means uLaunchELF. You should not use the form "ulaunch" though, since this can easily be mistaken for the silly kind of phone-texting language people use nowdays.

In any case, as long as you do have ESR lack of other programs is not really much of a problem. You can just download a DVD ISO file for uLE from this site, and use a PC to patch that ISO with the ESR patcher and then burn it to a DVD-R disc. Then you can boot that disc through ESR on your console to get uLE running, and then use its FileBrowser to copy any other stuff you want to the MC from a FAT32 formatted USB drive that you can prepare such files on using a PC.

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That's fine, I have no intention to play PS1 games, they are a little too dated for me.

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That is a matter of taste. I still have a 'soft spot' for many of them, but I have a modded PS1 console to play them on (in addition to emulators on PC), so I never use the PS2 for it anyway.

And if you don't need PS1 games at all, then my evaluation remains unchanged from earlier, in that the FMCB softmod is probably your best choice.

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Nah, just FFX/FFXII, I find the PS1 games a little too old.

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FFX and FFXII work fine with both ESR and OPL, so no problems there... :)

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If I did want to play them, I'd probably use a PS1 emulator as well.

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That is what most people do with games for older consoles nowdays, or even with games for older PC and OS variations.

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No need to be sorry, you have helped me alot, I'm very appreciative of that, so thank you very much.

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And I'm just glad I could help, and doubly so when it is duly appreciated. :)

Best regards: dlanor

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Originally Posted by dlanor

In any case, as long as you do have ESR lack of other programs is not really much of a problem. You can just download a DVD ISO file for uLE from this site, and use a PC to patch that ISO with the ESR patcher and then burn it to a DVD-R disc. Then you can boot that disc through ESR on your console to get uLE running, and then use its FileBrowser to copy any other stuff you want to the MC from a FAT32 formatted USB drive that you can prepare such files on using a PC.

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Awesome, that sounds easy enough, I am definitely going with FMCB now.

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That is a matter of taste. I still have a 'soft spot' for many of them, but I have a modded PS1 console to play them on (in addition to emulators on PC), so I never use the PS2 for it anyway.

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Yeah, I got into gaming pretty late in life (my first console was the original Xbox) so It's hard for me to play some of the PS1 and older games. A pity since some looked quite good, but with that said, there is a tonne of RPGs on the PS2 that I really want to play anyway, so I dont have the time to go back to the oldschool classics.

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FFX and FFXII work fine with both ESR and OPL, so no problems there... :)

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Yeah, I have been reading through all the compatibility lists and stuff, trying to see if any of the games I want to buy have any problems and stuff, so far, most look pretty good, apart from dual layer games which I think I read some people have trouble with, or its better not to play backups of, since it wears out the laser quicker. I'll probably stick with playing the original games for any dual layer game I get.

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And I'm just glad I could help, and doubly so when it is duly appreciated. :)

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Yep, I like to be thanked whenever I help people in any way, so I make sure to always thank someone whenever they help me.

So once again, thanks for all your help :)

I always liked better chip installed ....

MC can be accidently formatted, erased, or just stop working ....

My PS2 77004 is 2and a half years old. I bought it with chip, i dont even know wich one is in.

Works great for me .....