What happend to scenes?

[Smoker1]

I have been noticing things that I was wondering on. Seems like ever since Sony started sending out notices and the new 3.56 update, the Scene has seem to come to a halt. Also, noticed that the Wii Scene has also slowed down as well. Used to be you would see updates every day/other day or couple days. Now, it seems like since GeoHot and all the other Devs of CFW have been targeted by Sony, everyone is waiting to see what happens. This applies to the Wii Scene too.
Except for the Wii64/SX team announcing PS364 soon, seems like others are either taking a break (understandable for releasing outstanding projects), or they are waiting to see what happens in Court. Before, FBANext was getting responces almost everyday or updated almost every week on the Code.Google page.
If Sony does say we can not access a System/Device we Legally paid for, then they can go **** themselves and which ever significant other of their choosing. I say, since we paid for our Systems, we can do what we wish with it. Just wish these Companies will take their heads out of their asses. This is getting overly stupid.

[856534110967635]

well it is what it is at this point. i agree that some have dropped off the radar, but i think your exaggerating the decline a little bit. i see new developments every day in the scene and someone releases an update or a new application at least everyday now. i would argue that warez has unfortunately hijacked the scene, but we still have great stuff like otheros and the psl1ght sdk. i think when you look back on the scene in a year from now, youll see how all the FUD going around was truly unwarranted.

[AlexDC22]

Problem is that we are just spoiled kids that want more and more everyday, myself included
I just dont let it be known

[Hool]

Problem is that we are just spoiled kids that want more and more everyday, myself included
I just dont let it be known

Agreed

But seriously.. there has been lots of releases in past one month.. updates to many important software including "managers", and you should be thankfull of them. PS3 scene is small, only a few people are working on scene-releases so chill and let them do their magic. Lots of software already work almost perfectly and does not need serious updating (UAE, SNES, NES etc.).

I bet its not Sony slowing things down.. its just that lots of software has become very usable and does not need quick updates anymore. It's not like theres a major game released every day or week either.

[Twisty]

At the end of the day, imo, high profile developers don't want to have their equipment taken away from them so it's only sensible to drop off the radar. It makes more sense to keep quiet, continue your work in private and when/if things cool down, return with whatever updates or new exploits you might have. Unfortunately a lot of developers do this because they enjoy it, not because they want and have to deliver to the community. They have families and lives, they need to protect them selves and getting your self sued by a major corperation isn't the way to go about it.

[squarepusher2]

At the end of the day, imo, high profile developers don't want to have their equipment taken away from them so it's only sensible to drop off the radar. It makes more sense to keep quiet, continue your work in private and when/if things cool down, return with whatever updates or new exploits you might have. Unfortunately a lot of developers do this because they enjoy it, not because they want and have to deliver to the community. They have families and lives, they need to protect them selves and getting your self sued by a major corperation isn't the way to go about it.

They still let themselves get cowered too easily though. They isolate a few guys like Graf_Chokolo and Geohotto to let the message sink in to the rest that they're 'going to get you'. It's the proverbial 'wolf at the door' routine - talking about all the different ways he's going to chew you up.That's what Sony was counting on - seems to have worked wonders. If people would have shown they weren't impressed by that- there would have been nothing they could have done to stifle the scene.

So no, everybody 'protecting' their own Twitter page immediately and dropping off pretty much took the bait and played right into Sony's hands. Good Job Dave Man - I'm willing to bet when the smart meters come in and your energy costs get quadrupled overnight - you will likely not say anything and just suck it up as well if this is what we can expect in terms of active resistance to bullshit like this. Because I'm going to guarantee you - there's more stuff coming down the line that you might feel unpleasant about that has nothing to do with Sony, and it's going to require guts to fight it.

[Twisty]

They still let themselves get cowered too easily though. They isolate a few guys like Graf_Chokolo and Geohotto to let the message sink in to the rest that they're 'going to get you'. It's the proverbial 'wolf at the door' routine - talking about all the different ways he's going to chew you up.That's what Sony was counting on - seems to have worked wonders. If people would have shown they weren't impressed by that- there would have been nothing they could have done to stifle the scene.

So no, everybody 'protecting' their own Twitter page immediately and dropping off pretty much took the bait and played right into Sony's hands. Good Job Dave Man - I'm willing to bet when the smart meters come in and your energy costs get quadrupled overnight - you will likely not say anything and just suck it up as well if this is what we can expect in terms of active resistance to bullshit like this. Because I'm going to guarantee you - there's more stuff coming down the line that you might feel unpleasant about that has nothing to do with Sony, and it's going to require guts to fight it.

It doesn't mean they stop developing though and that's what matters. You have a choice, go into hiding and keep developing, or get you stuff siezed and stop developing. The only people it effects is us and unfortunately in the grand scheme of things, we're at the bottom of the list when it comes to priorities. Us not getting updates, new exploits or new CFW for a few months is better than us not getting any at all, which is exactly what will happen if Sony continue to sieze people's equipment.

Also, the more information that gets released regarding exploits or other ways in which people are taking over Sony's machine, the more Sony are able to combat it. It's not about fighting the cause by fighting back, this isn't the New World Order trying to take over the world. It's about preserving the usability of a machine, and sometimes deveopers going into hiding, and us getting droubts of information is what it takes for us to do that. This is normal and healthy in this kind of community...

[squarepusher2]

Twisty: You don't need to tell me about 'developers' going underground and continuing their development, because quite honestly, there is no proof of any of it - these are just assumptions you're going by. No, this is more deep-rooted - people just not having the guts to do what they like to do, and just cowering too easily.

Also, this situation would have never happened if they would have revealed everything they knew at the beginning. We're still beholden to a coding oligarchy that holds back certain things due to 'conscientious reasons'. And this coding oligarchy doesn't seem to get that AS LONG AS THEY ADVERTISE THEY KNOW STUFF THEY ARE NOT GOING TO RELEASE DUE TO CONSCIENTIOUS REASONS, SONY IS GOING TO COME AFTER THEM EVEN MORE.

You have a choice, go into hiding and keep developing, or get you stuff siezed and stop developing.

Them coming after you is illegitimate in any case - so no, they're still playing into Sony's hands by giving them exactly what they want - your fear. Otherwise, they would just be making a fool out of themselves by trying to go after as many people as possible.

THE STREISAND EFFECT CAN ONLY WORK IF YOU LET IT WORK FOR YOU, PEOPLE. It doesn't work by you cowering under rocks and essentially giving VALIDITY to Sony's illegimitate use of legal force against you.

By you responding to that in the 'desired way' (Sony's desired way), you're giving them everything on a silver platter.

Seriously - am I talking Chinese here, or do people just not want to get this?

It's not about fighting the cause by fighting back, this isn't the New World Order trying to take over the world.

You just stopped short of making up some excuse as to why what Sony doing what it is doing is only rational. I'm going to tell you exactly what pisses me off about this little quip you gave me here. You dished it out here , so I'm going to tell you what I think about it. I'm going to state this upfront - if you feel offended by the response I'm about to give you and feel as if it was uncalled for, then you shouldn't have thrown this little quip in there in the first place.

What it is about I suppose then, is a company that is showing you that you as a consumer are nothing more than a pathetic slave. I hope you get at least this elementary part of it - I hope you grasp that the very statement I gave you here is right on the ball and 100% indicative of the situation we currently find ourselves in.

And looking at most of the people responding here, it seems they've accepted that (that you as the consumer are supposed to be a slave to Sony - bound by a Terms of Service, bound by 'dictates' they draw up at will, entirely at the mercy of them to provide you with your features - not having any power over which features gets pulled from your machine next - just you obeying your master like a dog). Sorry, but that's pathetic. And I will continue calling it what it is - which is pathetic - even if most of you don't want to hear that. It's very pathetic and very demeaning for people who have already SIGNED UPON AN AGREEMENT IN THE FIRST PLACE - namely, forking out the dough for this worthless entertainment product. That's the only 'agreement' that should have any validity to it. So yes, a hacker capitulating in a way like this is pathetic. He shouldn't have anything to apologize over and he shouldn't even have to defend himself.

Just wondering what the relevance was of you making this comment here (this isn't 'X' trying to take over the world' - oh no, it's quite sane for Sony to do this). Please don't try to annoy the hell out of me by making these dumb little quips. Because you're indirectly justifying and rationalizing Sony's response here whether you know it or not.

I personally think it's pathetic you people can see all this shit Sony is trying to throw your way and STILL believe you have freedom. If anything, corporations running the show like this IN DIRECT CAHOOTS with the authorities (whether it be the judge or the police) - we have a term for that - it's called 'fascism' - also known as 'corporatism'. That's what you're living under when a company like Sony can get a judge to hand over ALL IP ADDRESSES OF EVERYONE WHO EVER VISITED GEOHOT.COM, INCLUDING WHO DOWNLOADED A FILE. It's time you start waking up and smelling the coffee here when stuff like that happens - because this indirectly THREATENS YOU as well - you don't even have to be involved in hacking or development. They want all the IP addresses of everyone who has ever VISITED his site - know the ramifications of that? You don't have to be 'Mr. Hypervisor Hacker x' for Sony to be privvy to your IP address now. Now they can go and scare you some more by sending you very 'threatening' bullshit e-mails to your ISP's e-mail account.

I'm not asking you to believe in what I believe - just that you need to start facing reality at a certain point - STOP thinking you've got it any better than the people in Egypt or Libya when corporations can pull this kind of shit right in front of your face. It's time to stop wanting to engage in perpetual little children-mode (where everything is fine with the world and everyone can play videogames all day and not have to worry about anything bad going down that might prove harmful to society - that is perpetual childhood - you know, the whole Commoner thing where everything is all centered around 'how you appear' to others in your own distinct peer group - and it's all about the dumb fads) and realize that big corporations and their governments have turned your society into something less-than-desirable for you, the common everyday citizen that still wants to believe things are more upbeat in his world than they really are.

Sorry, but this complacent attitude and the excuses people are making for it is starting to piss me the hell off - so I'm not even going to respond anymore to threads like this. I think I know what the real story is by now - and that most just don't have any guts and are not willing to admit that to themselves.

So yeah, continue making all the excuses and continue exploring all the little rhetorical thought avenues as to why everybody's such a coward - that's what it all boils down to in the end - 'appeal to fear'.

Anyone having a problem with what I wrote (I suspect you took an issue to that, Twisty, hence this little quip here you gave me) is just lying to themselves - because you know that in the end, you as the individual giving in to 'fear' tacitly admits that you have allowed yourself to become 'scared'. This is elementary logic - you getting scared - and you not wanting to do something out of possible 'fear' of repercussion. People who let themselves get 'scared' can thus be adequately termed 'cowards'. This is very basic, elementary logic - admitting these things is not appealing to the ego, but nobody should camouflage it to save face either. Sometimes things are what they are - and sometimes a spade is really a spade. Acknowledging that stuff is what it is - is the only way to get it fixed. Denying that things aren't as what they really are - is not the way to get it fixed.

So no, 'going underground', cowering under rocks - none of that is going to change anything or be even beneficial when you've got a company that thinks your rights to privacy are SO IRRELEVANT that they just want the judge to hand them over all IP addresses of everyone who has ever visited a certain hacker's site - that's when you should get very concerned and very angry - because they're trying to ASSERT RIGHTS here you should not let them get away with. They're an entertainment company - the only thing you have agreed to when you buy their garbage products is that YOU WANT TO BE ENTERTAINED BY THEM and that there is some agreed-upon sum of cash that you fork over to them as a compensation for wanting to engage in this indulgence they're providing you. Them ASSERTING RIGHTS over you like this is illegimate - it is a very serious threat to your freedoms, and nobody should make up any excuses about it.

[856534110967635]

at the heart of this dilemma, lies a basic question; do we the modders, hackers, and homebrew enthusiasts wish to take our rightful place in the mainstream of society, or would we rather return to the depths of obscurity. if we choose the latter, it validates every accusation made against us. we are thieves. we are troublemakers. we are the problem. i'm sure you've heard these words before.

for as long as we've lived on this earth, people of many denominations have fought for and won their rights to be accepted as legitimate members of society. if we don't strive for that status, we'll never achieve it.

[Twisty]

Twisty: You don't need to tell me about 'developers' going underground and continuing their development, because quite honestly, there is no proof of any of it - these are just assumptions you're going by. No, this is more deep-rooted - people just not having the guts to do what they like to do, and just cowering too easily.

And the premise of Sony not going after other people is an assumption you're going by as well...

Also, this situation would have never happened if they would have revealed everything they knew at the beginning. We're still beholden to a coding oligarchy that holds back certain things due to 'conscientious reasons'.

If you were around duing the PSP hacking days you'll know why this is...

Them coming after you is illegitimate in any case - so no, they're still playing into Sony's hands by giving them exactly what they want - your fear. Otherwise, they would just be making a fool out of themselves by trying to go after as many people as possible.

THE STREISAND EFFECT CAN ONLY WORK IF YOU LET IT WORK FOR YOU, PEOPLE. It doesn't work by you cowering under rocks and essentially giving VALIDITY to Sony's illegimitate use of legal force against you.

By you responding to that in the 'desired way' (Sony's desired way), you're giving them everything on a silver platter.

Seriously - am I talking Chinese here, or do people just not want to get this?

You're not talking chinese, not in the slightest, you're just not thinking about it realistically...

You just stopped short of making up some excuse as to why what Sony doing what it is doing is only rational. I'm going to tell you exactly what pisses me off about this little quip you gave me here. You dished it out here in an ill-advised manner, so I'm going to give you a piece of my mind here.

What it is about I suppose then, is a company that is showing you that you as a consumer are nothing more than a pathetic slave. I hope you get at least this elementary part of it despite your attempt here to rationalize it to yourself

And looking at most of the people responding here, it seems they've accepted that. Sorry, but that's pathetic. And I will continue calling it what it is - which is pathetic - even if most of you don't want to hear that. So yes, a hacker capitulating in a way like this is pathetic.

Just wondering what the relevance was of you making this comment here (this isn't 'X' trying to take over the world' - oh no, it's quite sane for Sony to do this). If you want to lie to yourself and pretend that you're living in a 'free country' (when even your own government there in the UK has no problem letting you know you're under an authoritarian system now), then I have no qualms about that - you can play 'make-pretend' all day and still believe you have it so much better than the people in Egypt or Libya (that's why the people in your country will probably never revolt anyway - because they believe themselves to be so much better off when in reality they're losing their rights and bucketloads of it every single day, as cases like this show). But please don't try to annoy the hell out of me by making these dumb little quips where you 'rationalize' everything to yourself and give me these 'appeals to authority'. Because you're indirectly justifying and rationalizing Sony's response here whether you know it or not.

Sorry, but this complacent attitude and the excuses people are making for it is starting to piss me the hell off - so I'm not even going to respond anymore to threads like this. I think I know what the real story is by now - and that most just don't have any guts and are not willing to admit that to themselves.

So yeah, continue making all the excuses and continue exploring all the little rhetorical thought avenues as to why everybody's such a coward - that's what it all boils down to in the end - 'appeal to fear'.

The reason I made that statement is because it's the truth. Sony are not trying to take over the world, they are not supressing our community in a way which requires us to form a resistence, take action and fight back. The way you bring that across is nothing short of fantasy. These a real people with real lives and having a law suit which not only deprives them of their posessions but brings debt upon them, is not healthy living. Do you want that? I bet you don't.

Two hackers have already got in trouble and so what if they're being used as scapegoats in Sony's quest for silence (and yes I actually do realise they're being used as scapegoats, I'm not a mindless zombie)? It doesn't mean Sony wont come after someone else and do the same with them. Sure, you're right, people should show Sony that we can't be messed with and that we wont cower to their fearmongering, but to be quite honest, it's not even worth it. It's better to let them think they're winning because not only will they give up faster, but our silence will likely cause them to leave more fatal flaws in their firmware, which in the end is what we want.

Sony have been going through hell for the past three or four years with the PSP. I have no evidence to support this, but it's likely after everything they've been through, they're now shitting bricks with this system. They know exactly what's coming and they need to do everything they can to prevent it, NOW. This is why responding in silence is good, this is also why certain groups keep their secrets to them selves. You will not even believe how many unreleased PSP exploits there are from games off PSN (an example), and sure it might seem selfish to keep this information back, but doing so preserves those exploits and prevents Sony from being able to fix them.

Silence is good, secrecy is good and these are all lessons that were learned in the past. People are responding this way because they know this is the way the should be respoding, especially in a situation like this which quite frankly is one like we've never seen before. It preserves their personal lives, it preserves their interests and it preserves the community, even though it might not seem like it.