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People who are experiencing lag can try changing the resolution - most of these HDTVs have a native resolution they output at, and anything above or below that requires postprocessing.
Originally Posted by Chesskid1 (NeoGAF)
For instance, my Samsung HDTV downstairs is 720p only but supports 1080i - if I set it at 1080i, there will indeed be lag. There is no lag if I set it to 720p however.
Other TVs that are 1080p-compatible might have 1080p as their native res, so there 1080p would yield the best results.
That being said, though, my HDTV monitor (LG Flatron W2261V - not particularly expensive but it has low response times) has no problem with any of the resolutions that the emus support - 720x480, 720x576, 1280x720, 1920x1080, you name it, it all runs equally well.
I'm not too sure about the guy who experienced the lag on his CRT TV. Perhaps he could provide some more info on his TV - is it a PAL or an NTSC TV? If it's PAL, then he should know that 720x576 mode runs at 50Hz - even when you load a 60Hz NTSC ROM, it will still run at 50Hz but it will use an interpolation trick courtesy of the PS3 that gives the appearance that you're running this at 60Hz - the only side-effect is some motion blurring.
Originally Posted by Chesskid1 (NeoGAF)
Try running it at 720x480 if his CRT TV is indeed a PAL one. You can select the resolution in the Settings screen.
FBANext / Street Fighter III 3rd Strike
Street Fighter III 3rd Strike runs for me at native speeds on my HDTV monitor - there is no lag. It all comes down to the response time of your HDTV, and some other related factors.
So, the one who experiences the supper laggy-nes might want to try some tinkering, because that is definitely not normal - I think I speak for Lantus here when I say that FBANext on most decent HDTVs should run just as well as on a CRT.
Unfortunately, FBANext does not support resolution switching - it's not in there at least. IF he's running at 1080p, try going to Display in the XMB, untick 1080p - that should force FBANext to run at 720p. See if it's better.
About the CRT shader -
Yes, it's known that this shader won't run at fullspeed if you're running at 1080p. It is fullspeed up to 1280x1080 (pseudo-1080p you could say) - I cover this in the README. Same story with Bloom and Super2xSaI - 1280x1080 is the cut-off point for some of these shaders. 2xSaI, HQ2x, Lanzcos16 and the like will run fullspeed at 1080p - Bloom will run fullspeed in Scaled mode at 1080p but not at Stretched mode.
Perhaps we can optimise them some more - but do note that these type of image-enhancing shaders can be heavier on the GPU than most of the shaders you see in commercial games - and the 7800 RSX obviously can only handle so much before it starts bowing under the pressure.
If the aim of this is to eliminate the lag (if there is lag on your specific TV), then no, that obviously won't work - and if anything the lag would be even worse due to the fact that it's streamed. If there's a lag problem, then the culprit is solely the PS3 and the way it's connected to the TV - or the TV itself because of factors such as response time - not the emu itself.
Originally Posted by Keyser_Soze (NeoGAF)
Link to previous post that I already posted in another thread:
Originally Posted by KeioSquad2
http://psx-scene.com/forums/679089-post63.html (SNES9x PS3 4.4.4 (FW 1.92+/FW 3.15/FW 3.41/CFW 3.55) Released)
BTW, sorry to the mods for hijacking this thread and using this forum as a relay point between these NeoGAF guys and us - I don't know what is up with the admin side of NeoGAF - either the admins there are all six foot under, they like to keep people waiting for weeks on end, or there is some kind of background profiling check going on there to determine whether someone is worthy to post on that forum - no idea. What I do know is that other devs just gave up trying to respond to people directly on there because they never got 'approved' on that forum.
Nah, despite being in a country where it's legal to smoke said substance, I don't engage in it - and I didn't 'port' it either - Lantus did. Get your facts straight next time by acquainting yourself to things like a 'README', and drop the elitist attitude. Let's try to keep this conversation civil from this point on. Just trying to be helpful here and not saying you or any of the NeoGAF forumites are liars - if I didn't care, I would not even correspond with you guys in this way - I would just shrug and say 'Meh, works for me'.
Originally Posted by fubarduck
Doesn't run at full framerate? Which shader, which res? There is a 'Display Framerate' option in the Settings menu that allows you to check out the FPS.
There's also the issue that it doesn't even run at full framerate
I can't vouch for Subcon's builds, but my build (the only difference of which is that I took out the inline params in the Makefile) runs Street Fighter III 3rd Strike (with 2xSaI shader at 1080p - Lanzcos16 might produce some lost frames with 1080p) at a near-constant framerate. Check it out yourself I'd say. We can verify these things with FPS counters - so that helps demystifying things.
If you get timing differences between the arcade and the emu, then that's bound to be something ingrained in the emu itself.
So no, sorry to say, but 'super laggy' it isn't like some poster commented on the NeoGAF boards.
Actually, press L3+R3. Select option 7, click on the first option, and set JAMMA to EXTERNAL. Then save those settings. The sound might be more to your liking then.
; that's why the music and sound effects are deeper than the arcade board. Not as bad as the lag, obviously.
Perhaps Lantus wants to respond or follow up with his own thoughts - I think this whole issue is blown totally out of proportion, personally.
Lying is when you make a deliberate attempt to deceive. That happened nowhere in my post.
Originally Posted by fubarduck,680914
The definition of what pertains to lag can be debated until the cows come home - in your case, as an arcade enthusiast, 'horrible input lag' would amount to the difference between 59.500 and 59.800.
It's a fighter, granted, and such stuff can indeed make a difference. However, when I 'claimed' there was no lag, I was referring more to statements like this:
Some other person on the NeoGAF boards made a similar remark that FBA also lagged as badly.
Playing on a CRT at the moment (ZERO input lag!!). Played on a 42" Panasonic LED yesterday. On both, one second lag on both VBA and snes9x. Make Mario jump, and the sound will occur just before he touches the ground, after he's made the jump.:lol
On VBA, you shoot on Metroid Fusion, and it's not until the beam is a good distance away that you hear the beam sound effect. It's simply the fact that the emulators are not optimised to their fullest yet.
This simply doesn't happen Period. There is something wrong with his setup if he's experiencing lag that bad, or perhaps he has something setup wrong on his PS3 or TV. But it sure as hell isn't one of our emus (SNES9x PS3/Genesis Plus GX PS3/VBA PS3/FCEU PS3) doing this.
When Mario jumps, the sound occurs instantly.
When you play Metroid Fusion and shoot a boom, you hear the beam sound effect instantly.
These are facts that can't be debated. I've played both of these emus (which I both worked on) for god knows how long, and this is just poppy****.
Here are my settings and setup BTW - I'm sure you can agree that my monitor of choice is not exactly high-end -
LG Flatron W2261V
Connected to PS3 with HDMI cable.
Display Settings (XMB)
Resolution - 1080p
Cross Colour Reduction Filter - Off
RGB Full Range (HDMI) - Full
Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr Super-White (HDMI) - Off
Deep Colour Output (HDMI) - Automatic
Sound Settings (XMB)
Audio Output Settings - Audio Input Connector / SCART / AV Multi
Audio Multi-Output - Off
Key Tone - On
If anyone gets lag in FBA to the extent that they hear the sounds being emitted exactly half a second later than the actual move being inputted in FBANext, then their setup is to blame, not the emulator.
Your account of 'lag', however, is entirely believable and acceptable even.
I woul like to verify what 3rd Strike runs at natively too. If you can find an accurate source for that, that would be of help.
You have to understand that 30ms IS super laggy for a fighting gamer. In fact, it's unplayable (that's 2 frames). That's the lag I feel when playing on this emulator.
It is a pretty constant framerate which is cool for ROM archival purposes, but the arcade board is always running at a constant 59.97fps (or whatever it runs at, I have no idea to be honest).
When I turn on the FPS counter (480p or 720p with 2xSai filter) it hovers between 59.2 and 59.8 or so. Technically, that's a great feat, but it simply doesn't play the game at the same timing as the arcade board.
I don't proclaim to be at tournament level so I honestly can't debate you there.
It sounds fine but it the tone is still different due to the slightly reduced framerate, and there is a really noticeable sound delay (for a tournament level fighting gamer) between when the move is executed and when the sound effect happens.
Perhaps we (Lantus, or some build distributor) can gain some more fps by profiling (with gcov) or just compiling with SNC. Perhaps that can narrow down the perceived gap.
While profiling VBA, we (me and Halsafar) yielded some very noticeable speed improvements - games that ran at 54-ish fps before would run at 60fps. I could try profiling FBA tomorrow and see if we can narrow down this FPS gap that you're talking about - get it closer to 59.94. Perhaps Themaister (who did the initial sound fix before initial release) can look at the sound again and see if there's some latency there that can be cut down.
You never mentioned in your post BTW which build you were using. That can also help - as the builds fluctuate in terms of performance. In my opinion, the 'inlining' parameters might as well be omitted - since they don't do any good and if anything worsen performance when you compile with GCC.
FBANext PS3 - Custom build - r417
FBANext PS3 - Custom build - r417 –
Here is a custom build of r417 - the pastie diff patch is also provided here so Lantus can hopefully commit this to the trunk:
#1479856 - Pastie
FBA Next - PS3 - Custom build r417 (FW 1.92+/FW 3.15/FW 3.41/CFW 3.55)
fbanext-ps3-custom-r417.zip (20.25 MB)
- You can resolution switch now in-game. Select the resolution in
the Settings screen by pressing Left/Right and switch to the resolution
by pressing the Cross/X button.
FBANext will list all the resolutions that your output device supports,
and give you the ability to switch inbetween them.
Depending on whether your monitor/TV supports them, you can switch
between the following resolutions:
- Added back the 'non-curved CRT shader' and renamed 'crt.cg' (which
was customised to be made curvy again) to 'curved-crt.cg'.
- Added some arguments that get used by the Cg runtime compiler - it
should compile them much better with less branches - resulting in better
- Added some ifdefs preprocessor statements so FBANext can be compiled
with 1.92 SDK (uncomment the lines that append -DPS3_SDK_1_92 to
PPU_CFLAGS and PPU_CXXFLAGS)
- Now includes Make rules so that you can easily create signed PKGs for
CFW 3.55 (and sign the EBOOT/SELFs).
- Corrected some things in the source - header files were inproperly
capitalized (M68000.h instead of m68000.h) when including them. This
went unnoticed because Lantus is using Windows which is not
case-sensitive - however, I am on Linux and this disregard for
case-sensitivity was causing Make to throw a fit when I first compiled
with 'make' and then later wanted to do 'make pkg' - having to start
all over again. So it's now properly fixed
- added some ifdefs (#ifdef __CELLOSLV2_) to the includes.
Most Metal Slug games actually had slowdown on native hardware - Metal Slug 2 in particular is the worst of the bunch - the slowdown in that game was so bad that SNK made the special effort to release a new version (Metal Slug X) with most of the serious slowdown removed.
Originally Posted by SuicideUZI (NeoGAF)
The only way you can get these games running slowdown-free is to CPU-overclock the Neo-Geo's processors.
Prior to r417, you could press R3+L3 and setup some stuff in Service mode. However, as of r417 that seems to be no longer possible. Also, I doubt that you could set CPU overclocking in the game's native Service mode - FBANext PS3 probably has yet to implement these options. (CPU overclocking)
In any case, I think your statement that you 'hope the emulators could be optimized' is frivolous when emus are getting blamed left right and center for things that have nothing to do with the emulator itself - in this case, believing the innate slowdown of the Metal Slug games is somehow due to the emulator when it's not.
Sure, I'm not saying that every game runs at an uninterrupted 59.94fps like in the arcades - but the lag some of you have been complaining about is not within the 400ms range - you're describing sounds not being in sync with the actual actions being performed. That's your TV's doing - nothing can be done about it. A lot of HDTVs (especially the early ones) are/were crappy - either fix the TV (as in - buy something that has decent response times - no ghosting - and so on) or find a way to disable all post-processing.
And try running at different resolutions - HDTVs usually have one native HD resolution that requires no post-processing or upscaling. Try that one.
Nah, I can't do any core updates like that.
Originally Posted by Lviv73
There just aren't any NoCD ROMs (that work at least with FBANext) for that game of the region that you require (English/Asian).
If FBA Next supported 'Install to CD', then you could just install the CD version to 'flash' once (just speaking from a virtualization standpoint, of course) and you could just run the English version that way. But that obviously isn't an option with FBA.
FBANext PS3 - Custom build v2 - r417 - FIXED
FBANext PS3 - Custom build v2 - r417 - FIXED –
Alright guys, this warrants another release. This is pretty big for those who are serious about their fighters.
Themaister might have some more beneficial audio changes down the line that might improve things even further.
As for now, I made one simple tweak to the audio - and this did wonders for the framerate.
FBANext PS3 - Custom build v2 - r417 - FIXED (FW 1.92+/FW 3.15/FW 3.41/CFW 3.55)
fbanext-ps3-custom-v2-r417-fixed.zip (20.28 MB)
Some info for Lantus:
Diff patches are included in this zip file - I have also included a diff patch without the CFW 3.55 rules like we discussed earlier.
Some additional information for guys like Fubarduck:
Guys like Fubarduck (pro-gaming types) should try this build out ASAP - the lag they've been noticing should be noticeably lessened or eliminated altogether.
Previously, Fubarduck could observe that games like 3rd Strike were hovering between 59.2 and 59.8:
Well, this 'wonderpatch' has improved it to such an extent that it now stays within the 59.9 ballpark - and it's pretty nearly at 59.94 fps - only dipping sometimes to 59.91. I'm sure lots of you will agree that this is a massive improvement versus - say - it dipping all the time back to 59.2 and then going back to 59.8 or 59.9.
59.2 and 59.8 or so
. Technically, that's a great feat, but it simply doesn't play the game at the same timing as the arcade board.
IIRC with Kmeaw you just install the 3.41 pkg.
Originally Posted by BIGWORM
Weird - I use the exact same signing and packaging procedure that I do in SNES9x/VBA/FCEU - and I never heard any complaints there.
Originally Posted by debs
Tried uninstalling the previous version of FBA first? Sometimes the USB stick is simply corrupted - that could also be it. Formatting it should do the trick in that case.
Tried installing the 3.41 pkg on Kmeaw? I dunno - I'm on 3.41 JB and have no intention to switch so I can only go by what others say.