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it is possible (Win)UAE for PS2?
it is possible (Win)UAE for PS2? –
Since it's coming soon the major 2.0 release of WinUAE, which is recognized to be much far better than any other UAE implementations out there in terms of code's quality.. and apparentely the PS2SDK will finally reach significative improvement anytime soon after the necessary Ragnarok2040's fixing and redisigning work will come to an end.. do you think it's time to try a real Amiga 500 emulation on PS2 or still will be too hard or simply impossible 'cause the low resource on PS2? ECS-only but full speed emulation..with usb support for storage and mouse+keyboard.. :-)
Just curiosity, I'm not a coder.
I just looked and I'm pretty sure it's not possible... The last few changes mention cycle-exact emulation, which doesn't bode well for the ps2. Cycle-exact emulation requires a lot of resources, generally up to the multiple GHz area...
Actually Cycle-exact emulation is optional in UAE, and it is required only to run a handful of games/apps. Most games and applications run fine without enabling it.
Originally Posted by ragnarok2040
Someone made a port of UAE to the PS2 a long long time ago, I got it lying around somewhere but it's too slow to be playable, and it gets worse if you enable the audio. Maybe the original author can be contacted to obtain the source code and try to optimize it?
However, a PS2 optimised Amiga emulator should very well run at full speed because the hardware on the Amiga 500 wasn't more powerful than a SNES. Besides, I remember that older versions of UAE ran Amiga 500 games with audio at full speed on my old P166MMX lots of years ago.
Here I must break in to disagree.
Originally Posted by luncheonticket
The main SNES CPU is a 65c816, which is essentially a hotted-up 6502 8-bit CPU with physical address bus extended to 24 bits (from original 16) and some registers and addressing modes being extended to allow 16-bit arithmetic and indexing as well as indirect access of 16-bit data (as opposed to the original 8-bit limits).
This can in no way compare to the power of a genuine MC68000 CPU, designed from the start to use an efficient 16-bit instruction set and with all general purpose registers having a native width of 32 bits, this also being the normal width used for arithmetic and address index calculations.
I have programmed extensively for many years for both the 6502 and 68000 families of CPUs (though not for the platforms mentioned here), and I can assure you that the 68000 family is by far the more powerful one.
This is not intended to say that the MC68000 would be very hard to emulate, as its logical structure should simplify many things, but I definitely consider it more powerful than the SNES processor.
That is quite likely since the Amiga ran at a clock speed of less than 8 MHz (7.09 or 7.16 appx for PAL and NTSC respectively). But clock speeds of this family can not be directly compared to the clocks of Intel family processors, as the methods used are entirely different, so an MC68000 gets a lot more work done per clock cycle, which in part compensates for the lower clocking rate.
Besides, I remember that older versions of UAE ran Amiga 500 games with audio at full speed on my old P166MMX lots of years ago.
But the main problem for really efficient emulation on the PS2 remains (as always) its tiny RAM.
Having lots of RAM, to use in wasteful ways, is one of the most useful assets of an emulator, as it allows some special tricks to be used that can speed up the emulation. (extensive jump table indexing can eliminate tons of sequential comparisons, for example)
But fortunately the Amiga too was a RAM-poor system (as was common in those days), so the RAM amount should not be a problem. And since our MIPS processors have both wider registers and higher speed than the Amiga CPU, the raw CPU power of a PS2 is definitely capable of achieving a good emulation speed.
Best regards: dlanor
Last edited by dlanor; 11-16-2009 at 04:37 PM.
A fair point well made, the 65c816 IS worse than any 68k. I think that I expressed myself wrong (English is not my native language).
I know the 68000 was a powerful beast for its time, having owned several Amigas, 68k Macs and the odd 68k Sun Workstation in the past. I think you're right, the SNES comparison was a little off.
I initially wanted to compare the Amiga to the Sega Genesis but besides using the same CPU its GFX/Audio chipset is inferior to the Amiga OCS/ECS chipset. That's why I chose the SNES as a comparison, since I find it closer in GFX/Audio spec to the A500 than the Genesis, weaker processor notwithstanding.
Bear in mind that my first x86 PC (back in 97-98) was a Pentium 166MMX with 32mb RAM and Windows 95 (and later Debian Potato IIRC) and it ran WinUAE/UAE with audio at full speed (in A500 OCS/ECS mode, mind) and a full PC OS behind it so I think spec-wise the PS2 should be more than capable of running a dedicated Amiga emulator, both in processing power and in memory capacity.
It may not be as flexible or powerful as UAE/WinUAE but maybe a simplified, fixed speed, 4mb maximum ram, OCS/ECS chipset Amiga 500 emulator to be able to run at least the early OCS and ECS jewels of this fine platform is doable.
At the end of the day we agree, it seems
Thanks to all guys for the exhaustive answers.
Now we know would be definitely possible, at least a full A500 emulation. The previous 'proof of concept' ps2uae was too unusable to be considered something relevant. I hope that future PS2SDK developments will render more easy a port of that like, beside lack of interests (on PSTwo.. one USB for storage, full ethernet capability, mouse+keyboard support..)
You're right, but Western Design also added a few new instructions but it was mainly meant to be compatible with the older 6502 8bit design.
Originally Posted by dlanor
Interesting enough, they apparently also made a 65832, which Steve Wozniak mentions as originally having wanted to use for the Apple //gs but was overruled yet again as Apple had to protect it's precious macintoshes.
Also, I just ran across a site this morning that had active links to ecs & aga chipset version of the ps2 port of uae along with source, but I didn't bother to download the source. (Found it.)
This is only v0.8.25 though, yet it might be helpful as a starting point for tips as what would need to be changed for a new uae port.
(I haven't tried it yet, but decided this morning to check all the latest version of various emulators and/or just re-download them in anticipation of some free time soon to spend on ps2 things unless the DS derails that... again... or worse yet a windows game...)
I tried a couple of apps and games on them, and even the OCS/ECS version was too slow to run at real time when the sound was enabled. The OCS/ECS version ran at almost 100% real time with the sound off, mind.
So it just may need a fair bit of code optimization to run faster...
Alot of updates would have to be done, besides Ole’s implementation is a good port, but it’s poorly optimized for the PS2.
The main thing to improve the emulation is in optimizing the code for the PS2 hardware, lack of memory is mentioned. Besides I doubt there is any copperlist in the PS2? And therefore the screen drawing would have to be emulated in some native PS2 way.
But if you have a lot of spare time on your hands, please do try to optimize the UAE code for the PS2, it sure has potential.