Mediaplayer Violates LGPL!!!

[_404]

First i would like to say that im not with or against any of the groups mentioned. I regularly contribute to open source projects and i am just giving my input on what i have seen so far.

according to LGPL ( http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/lesser.html )

If you wish to read more portions of the license then click the link above.

4. You may copy and distribute the Library (or a portion or derivative of it, under Section 2) in object code or executable form under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above provided that you accompany it with the complete corresponding machine-readable source code, which must be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange.

This means that they must release source for every version they have released. So far there is only one release of source code.

5. A program that contains no derivative of any portion of the Library, but is designed to work with the Library by being compiled or linked with it, is called a "work that uses the Library". Such a work, in isolation, is not a derivative work of the Library, and therefore falls outside the scope of this License.

This means that the DMS team, AS LONG AS THEY USE NO PORTIONS OF THE SOURCE OR PS2REALITY BINARY WITHIN THEIR LOADER then they are within their legal limits with the ps2reality player DMS loader.

6. As an exception to the Sections above, you may also combine or link a "work that uses the Library" with the Library to produce a work containing portions of the Library, and distribute that work under terms of your choice, provided that the terms permit modification of the work for the customer's own use and reverse engineering for debugging such modifications.

You must give prominent notice with each copy of the work that the Library is used in it and that the Library and its use are covered by this License. You must supply a copy of this License. If the work during execution displays copyright notices, you must include the copyright notice for the Library among them, as well as a reference directing the user to the copy of this License. Also, you must do one of these things:

a) Accompany the work with the complete corresponding machine-readable source code for the Library including whatever changes were used in the work (which must be distributed under Sections 1 and 2 above); and, if the work is an executable linked with the Library, with the complete machine-readable "work that uses the Library", as object code and/or source code, so that the user can modify the Library and then relink to produce a modified executable containing the modified Library. (It is understood that the user who changes the contents of definitions files in the Library will not necessarily be able to recompile the application to use the modified definitions.)

This can be interpreted in a number of ways, most importantly their protection schemes involved modifying source that is protected by LGPL in two different projects, FFMPEG and CDVD source. The protection scheme was not released and is not CVS which makes the latest ps2reality mediaplayer in violation of LGPL.

I hope this clears things up for some. If you feel that these violations affect you then please contact:
license-violation@gnu.org
Fabrice Bellard
Juan J. Sierralta Pulento

[sparc]

I fear I have to comment on this one..

Originally posted by _404
First i would like to say that im not with or against any of the groups mentioned. I regularly contribute to open source projects and i am just giving my input on what i have seen so far.

according to LGPL ( http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/lesser.html )

If you wish to read more portions of the license then click the link above.



This means that they must release source for every version they have released. So far there is only one release of source code.




This means that the DMS team, AS LONG AS THEY USE NO PORTIONS OF THE SOURCE OR PS2REALITY BINARY WITHIN THEIR LOADER then they are within their legal limits with the ps2reality player DMS loader.

First of all I'm not sure which part of the software falls under LGPL.. However the PS2 Reality crew released all the code they were supposed to release. Often, especially commercial companies, don't release this code but it can be requested by email. E.g. Broadq seems to be using FFMPEG code which they'll provide to those who ask for it by email. The part however of the program that does or doesn't 'call' these libraries isn't for the public and is owned by the authors. So what you are writing above 'doesn't cut 'cheese' (or whatever the saying is)'. Also the issue is already more or less resolved. Basically if the PS2 Reality guys keep the program 'free' for everybody to use but put in a disclaimer that John Doe from the USA can't use it because they don't want to, so be it..

This can be interpreted in a number of ways, most importantly their protection schemes involved modifying source that is protected by LGPL in two different projects, FFMPEG and CDVD source. The protection scheme was not released and is not CVS which makes the latest ps2reality mediaplayer in violation of LGPL.


I hope this clears things up for some. If you feel that these violations affect you then please contact:
license-violation@gnu.org
Fabrice Bellard
Juan J. Sierralta Pulento

You are giving the names of the FFMPEG people if I remember their names correctly and they've already received the FFMPEG related code of the PS2 Reality Player about two weeks ago and praised the way how the PS2 Reality people worked with them.

[gothi]

I'm going to keep this brief:

The 1.25 player does go against LGPL (by adding the protection) and the PS2 Reality team were told this by a member of the MPlayer team.....

[sparc]

Originally posted by gothi
I'm going to keep this brief:

The 1.25 player does go against LGPL (by adding the protection) and the PS2 Reality team were told this by a member of the MPlayer team.....

I'm keeping this short too since there is no need for an additional war.. As far as I know the PS2 Reality Player isn't protected, it just checks for libraries on the CD which is something that has to be re-written to relative adresses on the memory card for the DMS guys to use it (which is what they did as far as I know). Also legally seen it doesn't matter how you compile your code. If however the ffmpeg code is protected by CRC values against the smallest of change this even isn't a problem, as long as they release that source code to those that want it.

[gothi]

The 1.25 player contains protection to stop it working on the DMS3 dev mode (boot apps from the memory card for those that don't know), the PS2 Reality team have admitted this publicly in their forums.

Part of an email convo I had (I had hoped I wouldn't have to post this):

> The next release of the Media Player features protection to stop it from
> being loaded from the memory card.
I've told Mavy that is goes against the LGPL, and you (DMS team?) can tell them
the same. If the DMS would want to gain credit by hiding PS2MP credit screens
or whatever, I could understand PS2MP people. However if they don't, I don't
see what the fight goes on about.

As you can see, a lot of info was left out in the 'war' which left a lot of ppl in the dark and hating the DMS3 team for doing something that according to the LGPL they were entitled to do anyway (the post by DMS is another matter, that was rude and antaganistic). If you want I can post the two sections of the LGPL in question with the specific parts highlighted?

[sparc]

Originally posted by gothi
The 1.25 player contains protection to stop it working on the DMS3 dev mode (boot apps from the memory card for those that don't know), the PS2 Reality team have admitted this publicly in their forums.

Part of an email convo I had (I had hoped I wouldn't have to post this):


As you can see, a lot of info was left out in the 'war' which left a lot of ppl in the dark and hating the DMS3 team for doing something that according to the LGPL they were entitled to do anyway (the post by DMS is another matter, that was rude and antaganistic). If you want I can post the two sections of the LGPL in question with the specific parts highlighted?

Basically this protection comes down to a CRC check which makes the binary unusable upon change while it does forced reading of library from the CD. Again this doesn't go again the LGPL IMHO. If what you say is true, why aren't we allowed to distribute the RTE (Run Time Environment) on the first PS2 Linux DVD ?

Let's put it this way.. Say I write a picture viewer with my own code and include modified ffmpeg libraries but don't allow anybody to use the video functionality in the software unless they have a certain brand of soundcard in their PC while I'm still allowing people to obtain my changed source code as far as the ffmpeg part goes.. There is no problem with that.

I'm not totally pro PS2 Reality team / DMS3 team.. The memory card loader which comes with the DMS3 chip is something I like a lot and I like the PS2 Media Player a lot. Actually I'm considering putting a DMS3 in my old 10000 series PS2 so I try to stay pretty much neutral but will correct things when needed.. If I'm wrong I've made a mistake but I doubt that.

[gothi]

The protection in the media player is not a simple CRC check, they did a few things to make sure you couldn't use it with the Dev. mode...

I'm not the one to question on the LGPL thing, the bit I quoted was from a member of the MPlayer team and obviously he knows what he is talking about. I'm more inclined to believe him over others as he is a neutral third party (and a nice guy)

[sparc]

Originally posted by gothi
The protection in the media player is not a simple CRC check, they did a few things to make sure you couldn't use it with the Dev. mode...

I'm not the one to question on the LGPL thing, the bit I quoted was from a member of the MPlayer team and obviously he knows what he is talking about. I'm more inclined to believe him over others as he is a neutral third party (and a nice guy)

Okay, so be it.. Let's close this topic ??

[mofo]

yeah, close it. why do we need free speech anyway?

[BillyCohen]

Mamt Fotte!