Dev wannabe

[leech88]

Hello everyone.

I'm new to the ps2 homebrew scene and I'm amazed at everything that has been accomplished and truly grateful to everyone that has contributed for free. Recently I've become interested in emulating the sega genesis in the ps2 and replay all those great classics, so I downloaded pgen, the emu that seems to stand as the best alternative and I couldn't believe that most games still can't be played at 60hz without slowdowns!... Is the ps2 not capable of perfect genesis emulation? How come that ps2 games like Sonic Gems Colection Plus can emulate genesis games pretty much perfectly and pgen can't? This is very hard for me to accept... I understand that people put their efforts and limited time into things like those emulators for free and I, being grateful for that and having a hard time accepting the current state of genesis emulation in the ps2, I just thought that maybe I could give something back to the community and make a difference... But can I really make a difference? I have a solid knowledge of C at a basic and intermediate level and some knowledge of basic circuits from a few academic disciplines from college but not much more... Would that be enough to make a difference? Would it be within my grasp to educate myself with what is needed to such a task without having to take a 1-year course or something? Could I, for example, since pgen is open source, try to improve on the code? If so, how? Or should I just leave it to the pros and be patient?

Your thoughts please. I'm just a guy with some notions, free time and a great eagerness to contribute in some way. Thanks for taking the time to read this.

[yoshi314]

How come that ps2 games like Sonic Gems Colection Plus can emulate genesis games pretty much perfectly and pgen can't? This is very hard for me to accept...

that's probably because it's a reimplementation of the game, instead of emulation.

ps2 might appear beefy, but that's because it's design is tailored towards high performance visuals. when it comes to actual number crunching, the main cpu is not so great. and this is what mostly matters when it comes to emulation.

whether ps2 is capable of genesis emulation - not sure, maybe it is possible.

[SP193]

that's probably because it's a reimplementation of the game, instead of emulation.

ps2 might appear beefy, but that's because it's design is tailored towards high performance visuals. when it comes to actual number crunching, the main cpu is not so great. and this is what mostly matters when it comes to emulation.

whether ps2 is capable of genesis emulation - not sure, maybe it is possible.

Actually - it could be (and is most likely) that SEGA had a better emulator.

On the contrary to what some people believe, the public Generator sources probably never included a dynamic binary translation ("Dynamic recompilation") engine. Generator seems to have always used software translation, and I think that it's interpreter emulation engine might not be too highly optimized.

I've never owned a computer older than a Pentium II PC that ran at 400MHz, so I don't know whether a 300MHz Pentium II can emulate a Megadrive/Genesis at full speed without a well-optimized emulator.

EDIT: I just remembered that I have an Intel 80486 DX that runs at 33MHz, but that will surely not be able to emulate a Genesis/Megadrive. :P

EDIT2:

@leech88: I know what you mean. :P

Well, it's up to you to decide on whether you would like to embark on a programming adventure with the PS2, since there are only a handful of 'good' coders left here. Many of them have 'retired' and have moved on with life.

Just be warned that programming the PS2 is different from programming the Intel x86 with Windows. It involves a lot of low-level hardware and kernel accesses, and there are some rules that you must adhere to because of differences in architecture.

I won't say that programming the PS2 is difficult, but it's more like you have to be patient and well organized. When you get stuck, don't just keep trying to fix the problem for extended periods of time as the problem probably has a logical explanation.

[leech88]

Well, since this would be my first attempt at ps2 programming I'm thinking of just trying to port a good open-source windows-based genesis emulator (like Gens for example) and compiling with the vector c compiler by codeplay. What do you guys think?

Also, I believe many of the problems I will face must have been met before and there's no need for me to "reinvent the wheel", so are there any documents or people I can contact in case I come to need some insight?

[SP193]

Well, since this would be my first attempt at ps2 programming I'm thinking of just trying to port a good open-source windows-based genesis emulator (like Gens for example) and compiling with the vector c compiler by codeplay. What do you guys think?

That might be messy, as many modern emulators like Gens are written totally in C/C++ (Hence probably not much better off then Generator) and require DirectX. Now, the PS2 has nothing like that, and porting will hence require you to replace calls to the DirectX libraries with the appropriate equivalent.

Also, I believe many of the problems I will face must have been met before and there's no need for me to "reinvent the wheel", so are there any documents or people I can contact in case I come to need some insight?

Indeed.

Well, Google is your friend here. A lot of information was gathered, discussed and recorded on the PS2DEV and PSX-scene boards. Performing a Google search on these sites will usually yield something interesting.... unless you search for something obscure.

[DefectX11]

If you want to code for PS2, wouldn't a PS2 dev kit be high up on your list of things to get?

[SP193]

If you want to code for PS2, wouldn't a PS2 dev kit be high up on your list of things to get?

While having the Sony development tools will definitely make your life easier, obtaining a TOOL is generally:

1. Not cheap.
2. Difficult to locate.
3. Illegal (Since you are probably not a licensed developer)
4. Not exactly a must, since it is possible to develop software with a retail PS2 and the homebrew SDK.

[DefectX11]

They're considered safe, aren't they? It's an out of production system, and there are no major titles being produced for it (by a registered company). it's the PSP TOOLs you'll want to avoid if you want to stick to the law. But really, there's an extremely low chance (>1%) that Sony is either going to find out, or even going to care for the PS2 TOOLs. They have very limited online access and so don't update over the internet (unless you boot linux and download updates there, but AFAIK Sony doesn't support the update server anymore)
I can see expensive and hard to find as points. However, it is possible to find them for good prices (I've seen a couple go for $300) if you don't mind too much about the cosmetics.

A couple more points
-They're damn awesome looking. You can't deny that look. (+)
-The looks come hand in hand with the high noise levels. Be prepared to put it in another room. (-)
-built in PS2 hardware to work with (+)
-hard to find parts, fixing is a pain, etc. (-)

EDIT- I quote the dev hardware god himself- "No if licensed, No if they no longer exist, no if you bought it as scrap.
Yes if it's loaned and not sold."
Also keeping in mind it's the software that's high risk, especially retail games.

[SP193]

They're considered safe, aren't they? It's an out of production system, and there are no major titles being produced for it (by a registered company). it's the PSP TOOLs you'll want to avoid if you want to stick to the law. But really, there's an extremely low chance (>1%) that Sony is either going to find out, or even going to care for the PS2 TOOLs. They have very limited online access and so don't update over the internet (unless you boot linux and download updates there, but AFAIK Sony doesn't support the update server anymore)
I can see expensive and hard to find as points. However, it is possible to find them for good prices (I've seen a couple go for $300) if you don't mind too much about the cosmetics.

A couple more points
-They're damn awesome looking. You can't deny that look. (+)
-The looks come hand in hand with the high noise levels. Be prepared to put it in another room. (-)
-built in PS2 hardware to work with (+)
-hard to find parts, fixing is a pain, etc. (-)

EDIT- I quote the dev hardware god himself- "No if licensed, No if they no longer exist, no if you bought it as scrap.
Yes if it's loaned and not sold."
Also keeping in mind it's the software that's high risk, especially retail games.

Agreed! In fact, the points you mentioned here are exactly the same as what one could say about the SCPH-10000, SCPH-15000 and SCPH-18000 consoles... since they are nearly exactly the same as your TEST PS2 unit.

You are right. It's safer now... but clearly Sony had something against people selling their debugging stuff as such trades used to get taken down before they are completed.

As for the noise - I think that my SCPH-39006 is louder. D:
My SCPH-10000 heats up a LOT though... and it probably died because of that. :/