Think Sony will ever attack cfw users?

[Ben Jeremy]

This is where you should have stopped


How are they going to prove you're not using a backup copy, which is perfectly legal?

Backups aren't the issue. Circumventing copyright protection mechanisms is the issue. It's a violation of the DMCA just to have CFW on your system.

Nobody has ever been sued for having personal "backups" of anything, even if they didn't have an original. People have been sued and charged for SELLING "backups", or UPLOADING "backups". Possession is not enough, in legal terms, to meet the requirements of a violation. Distribution, on the other hand, does.

As for your modded console, though, it certainly meets the requirements of a DMCA violation, chargeable under the law. According to the law, you are in possession of an illegal piracy device.

...this is why the DMCA is a bad law.... but it still is in the books, and you can bet Sony will use it against you, just as Sony is pursuing cases against German end users using German law.

[puddin10]

.


Sony will sue (technically, you are violating the DMCA by circumventing your device's copyright protection measures) and worse, they may brick your systems, gleefully... the more hacked systems they take out, the more systems they will likely sell in replacement (and they make a profit now, on those consoles).

Sony is not Microsoft. They are entirely different animals, and they've shown their true colors, well before Geohot got served.

I dont think $ony can brick or even do anything to Your console exept ban you it would be like lg coming round and smashing your tv for watching something they didnt like what your watching or ford coming and burning your car out because you modified it at the end of the day you purchased that console so you can do what you want with it!!!
If you payed for your console its yours you can do what you want with it!
If that agreement was something that they could use against you you should have been made clear of it BEFORE you purchased the ps3 not when you had payed for it and switched it on otherwise you have been duped into buying something you haven't been made aware of the terms and conditions!
I'd Sony is in a real grey area in infringing on peoples rights sony is a company we are the real people!

[Newt182]

Backups aren't the issue. Circumventing copyright protection mechanisms is the issue. It's a violation of the DMCA just to have CFW on your system.

Nobody has ever been sued for having personal "backups" of anything, even if they didn't have an original. People have been sued and charged for SELLING "backups", or UPLOADING "backups". Possession is not enough, in legal terms, to meet the requirements of a violation. Distribution, on the other hand, does.

As for your modded console, though, it certainly meets the requirements of a DMCA violation, chargeable under the law. According to the law, you are in possession of an illegal piracy device.

...this is why the DMCA is a bad law.... but it still is in the books, and you can bet Sony will use it against you, just as Sony is pursuing cases against German end users using German law.

You have taken my quotes out of context. Plus I live in the UK, DMCA doesn't mean much here.

And what would Sony do exactly? If I have broke a law, I go to court and get a small fine, plus a criminal record. What do Sony get out of it? I'm not working so my fine will just be court costs (probably £60-80) because I broke the law.

Before even going to court, I have to be proven guilty. Do you think police are going to come around and break down my door to take my PS3 away as evidence? NO

[Ben Jeremy]

I dont think $ony can brick or even do anything to Your console exept ban you it would be like lg coming round and smashing your tv for watching something they didnt like what your watching or ford coming and burning your car out because you modified it at the end of the day you purchased that console so you can do what you want with it!!!
If you payed for your console its yours you can do what you want with it!
If that agreement was something that they could use against you you should have been made clear of it BEFORE you purchased the ps3 not when you had payed for it and switched it on otherwise you have been duped into buying something you haven't been made aware of the terms and conditions!
I'd Sony is in a real grey area in infringing on peoples rights sony is a company we are the real people!

You haven't been paying attention, have you? What do you think the Geohot case is really about, anyway? He's accused of "breaking in to his OWN console" Sony considers it leased property, from an IP (Intellectual Property) point of view, and theirs to control as they see fit.

The DMCA handed this to the industry (considering it was written by the industry, it's no wonder) when it became law.

What hasn't happened is a real test of the law, because usually, the corporations back down.

They also don't have to brick it in the horrible, must-go-into-service-center sense... they can just put in a patch that forces you to update to 3.56 or higher to continue using it. It would be very hard for a consumer to argue Sony has somehow wronged them - particularly if Sony provides several means to get the update (say a 256MB Flash drive with the update pre-loaded mailed to users who ask for it).

[puddin10]

Yes he's been accused plain and simple we'll see the outcome next week which if the courts care anything about the PEOPLE then they will chuck it out if they care only for big business then it will probably go for $ony but at the end of the day if it goes in favor of sony then our human rights have been infringed upon

If that agreement was something that they could use against you you should have been made clear of it BEFORE you purchased the ps3 not when you had payed for it and switched it on otherwise you have been duped into buying something you haven't been made aware of the terms and conditions!

You als say i leased it I would like to see sony try and recover there rented box then
If they put out a patch that made you update they would be breaking the law

[Ben Jeremy]

You have taken my quotes out of context. Plus I live in the UK, DMCA doesn't mean much here.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the UK's version is called the "Digital Economy Bill" and while some parts have been struck down, it is still very much like the DMCA, outside of the struck provisions regarding downloading copyrighted materials.

And what would Sony do exactly? If I have broke a law, I go to court and get a small fine, plus a criminal record. What do Sony get out of it? I'm not working so my fine will just be court costs (probably £60-80) because I broke the law.

I'm sure if Sony pursues a case, it's going to cost you quite a bit. Probably civil first, then, if successful, they'll pursue criminal charges. Ever heard of SLAPP? It's a legal principle, and a dirty tactic Sony has used time and time again. Geohot's case is over a potential $5000 fine, but if he loses, it will open him up to much more.

Before even going to court, I have to be proven guilty. Do you think police are going to come around and break down my door to take my PS3 away as evidence? NO

Say what? "Proven guilty before being taken to court?" Strange court system you've got there in the UK. I'm sure a little cash slipped to the right judge will get anybody Sony wants taken to court. Bribery works well all around the world.

[Ben Jeremy]

Yes he's been accused plain and simple we'll see the outcome next week which if the courts care anything about the PEOPLE then they will chuck it out if they care only for big business then it will probably go for $ony but at the end of the day if it goes in favor of sony then our human rights have been infringed upon

If that agreement was something that they could use against you you should have been made clear of it BEFORE you purchased the ps3 not when you had payed for it and switched it on otherwise you have been duped into buying something you haven't been made aware of the terms and conditions!

You als say i leased it I would like to see sony try and recover there rented box then
If they put out a patch that made you update they would be breaking the law

Note that I qualified it as pertaining to their "Intellectual Property" - in other words, they see it as a license to operate the hardware, until they decide to revoke it. This is no different than music you purchase... in theory, the music industry is selling you a license to listen to the music, but they retain certain rights. The CD, Tape, Album, or MP3 is just a medium used to provide you with the music (of course, they also apply a double standard there, but again, enough money to the right people, and it gets ignored).

As for your system, you are welcome to throw it in a hole and bury it, but to play the games they create for it, you have to use it according to their requirements.

You and I might argue that that is profoundly ridiculous, nonetheless, according to the DMCA (and laws in most countries that aren't third-world), Sony's stand is technically correct. The law has not been tested against the founding fathers' principle of "Fair Use" yet, or the innumerable property laws we have. Until then, the corporations rule the way you use their hardware, to a certain degree (that is, in how it is used to experience copyrighted materials).

Please don't confuse me with siding with Sony - I'm not saying they would be morally or ethically correct in taking the actions I've described, but legally, they can, and most likely WILL. They've shown no desire to be fair to their customers, why should we believe they will now? I will also add that I don't think, if pressed to the Supreme Court (and bribery not a factor), that the DMCA restrictions on how consumers use their own machines would stand... but I also doubt anybody has the wherewithal to stand up to Sony for that long of a fight.

[Newt182]

I'm sure if Sony pursues a case, it's going to cost you quite a bit. Probably civil first, then, if successful, they'll pursue criminal charges. Ever heard of SLAPP? It's a legal principle, and a dirty tactic Sony has used time and time again. Geohot's case is over a potential $5000 fine, but if he loses, it will open him up to much more.



Say what? "Proven guilty before being taken to court?" Strange court system you've got there in the UK. I'm sure a little cash slipped to the right judge will get anybody Sony wants taken to court. Bribery works well all around the world.

Civil court for doing what? I'm an end user. What costs do Sony need to recuperate from me for jailbreaking my own PS3?

Are Sony going to take all of the hundreds of thousands of people to court? That's a lot of wasted money and time if you ask me.

[behelit]

Civil court for doing what? I'm an end user. What costs do Sony need to recuperate from me for jailbreaking my own PS3?

Are Sony going to take all of the hundreds of thousands of people to court? That's a lot of wasted money and time if you ask me.

You seem to be deliberately ignoring BJ's point. I don't think he would disagree with you that it's, "...a lot of wasted money and time."

Apparently reading comprehension isn't very strong in the part of the world you're from. Reread what he's saying carefully, and be sure to pay attention to the words he's chosen and what they really mean.

[Newt182]

You seem to be deliberately ignoring BJ's point. I don't think he would disagree with you that it's, "...a lot of wasted money and time."

Apparently reading comprehension isn't very strong in the part of the world you're from. Reread what he's saying carefully, and be sure to pay attention to the words he's chosen and what they really mean.

What are you talking about? You did see that the topic is about end users (reading comprehension problem, eh?). It's pointless taking end users to court as Sony won't get anything from it. I don't need to hire a lawyer even if Sony did take me to court, and it would all be over in less than a day. I can't even see how there can be a civil case there.

So, enlighten me, what is BJ's point?