Questions about ebay(relating to 360)

[xPreatorianx]

here's the deal. I put up a Xbox 360 on ebay, and than ESA decided to send ebay a message to take it down. The only thing that can be remotely considered bad was the fact that I put it was using Ixtreme as the firmware for the DVD drive. But yet JTAGs are sold every day on the bloody site.

So here's the message I got from ebay regarding the situation :

Dear xpreatorianx1021 ,

You recently listed the following auction-style listing:

- Microsoft Xbox 360 White Console controller cables HDD


Your listing has been removed.



The rights owner or an agent authorized to act on behalf of the rights owner, ESA - Entertainment Software Association, notified eBay that this listing violates intellectual property rights. When eBay receives a report of this type of violation, we remove the listing to comply with the law.



Only copyright owners can copy, distribute, perform, or publicly display their work. Unauthorized copies include (but aren't limited to) backup, pirated, duplicated, or bootlegged copies.

Because the item in your listing was reported by the rights owner as being an unauthorized copy, you're not allowed to relist, advertise, or offer it for sale on any eBay site or service around the world.

Here's more information on our policy:

And you can learn more about copyrights here:

If you have additional questions in regard to contacting the VeRO Member or if you need additional information on how to contact the VeRO Member, you can chat with one of our policy experts.

You can reach them from 5:00 am to 8:00 pm Pacific Time. Get started by clicking
the link below.


You may need to take a tutorial. If it's required, you may be asked to take it the next time you sell. Once you've completed the tutorial successfully, please review your account status for any other possible concerns. If there are no other issues, you should be able to sell again.

To take the intellectual property tutorial, please visit:

Please be aware that any additional violations of this policy may result in the suspension of your account. We understand that you may be concerned about this situation.

We encourage you to contact ESA - Entertainment Software Association directly if you have any questions.

You can send an email to: copyright@theesa.com

For more information on how eBay protects Intellectual Property, or for additional information if you believe that your listing has been removed as a result of an error or misidentification, please visit the following Help page:




For more information on why eBay may remove a listing, please visit:

Please be assured that your listings have not been targeted in any way. We review all listings that are reported to us by eBay members or Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) program participants.

Thank you for your understanding.

Sincerely,

eBay Trust & Safety team

So does anyone know why it was removed? I'm contacting the pricks through email now. I just got my computer back online today and I was greeted with this. All ebay had to say was "we don't know why they wanted us to take it down, but we had too, contact them if you want to know why." If they didn't know why it needed to be taken down, WHY did it get taken down?

Also I wanted to let everyone know that I did tell the buyers that I had Ixtreme installed on my DVD drive's firmware. But that's not illegal either. If people can sell 360's with the listing "Jtaggable" then why can't I sell something with what I had?

I contacted ESA and I'm waiting on a response. But if it is about the 360 firmware, should I just reflash it back to stock, or should I personally message the buyer and tell them that it has Ixtreme on it?

[sabin1981]

Actually, the difference between JTAGable and iXtreme... is that one specifically allows the use of piracy, the other is simply an older machine with a vulnerable dashboard. The iXtreme one allows you to burn a backup and play, no issues, but the JTAGable requires soldering and other external modifications. eBay remove listings for machines that are already JTAGed, but they ignore ones that have the POTENTIAL to be JTAGed.

Best thing to do? Relist it, don't mention iXtreme (in some countries it's still illegal to modify the machine) and add something along the lines of "Email me for more information"

[KainUK]

It's because you mentioned the DVD drive having iXtreme.

They take down anything that allows piracy (you cannot find pre-JTAG'ed machines on eBay UK... or at least they are not described as such). I had a PSP listing removed because I stated it had CFW installed for running emulators. Someone reported it as allowing piracy and that was it... it was taken down.

[xPreatorianx]

It's because you mentioned the DVD drive having iXtreme.

They take down anything that allows piracy (you cannot find pre-JTAG'ed machines on eBay UK... or at least they are not described as such). I had a PSP listing removed because I stated it had CFW installed for running emulators. Someone reported it as allowing piracy and that was it... it was taken down.

See the funny thing was, I sold a PSP that I listed as having 5.00 M33-6 and that didn't get taken down. But I believe they didn't have the time too. That thing sold within an hour of me putting it up because I sold it for dirt cheap to make up the difference in a deal I have with a friend to get me a brand spanking new GTX 560 TI.

Anyways I guess I'll relist it and just leave out the Ixtreme. I put up on the auction that it was sold as is, so that will still remain. I'll just leave that extra info about the DVD firmware out.

Quite honestly I plan to send a big **** YOU to ESA. They don't have the right to tell me what I can and can't sell. Unless they can prove the device was directly used for piracy, it's still legal here in the US. The ESA just wanted to strong arm me but I have news for em, I won't back down.

[xPreatorianx]

Turns out Kain was right.

Here's their response and my response to that response. Man I wanted to cuss them out but I think I kinda did but "intelligently".

Mr.None is me. I have my last name censored on my email address. :P. So they addressed me as none because my email address says First name - None.

Their response :

Mr. None,

Upon review of your eBay listing, I have found your auction to contain items or references prohibited by the eBay User Agreement and as a result it has been removed.

As stated in the eBay User Agreement, auctions containing items that infringe upon intellectual property rights or encourage the infringement of intellectual property rights will be removed from the site and consequences will be applied to the eBay seller’s account.

eBay specifies that:

“Equipment that would support unauthorized copies including mod chips, game enhancers, and boot discs and hardware or software that would enable members to duplicate copy-protected material.”

will result in the removal of the auction. Auction descriptions that “…enable, encourage, or instruct others to infringe copyrights, trademarks, or other rights.” also violate the eBay policy. eBay also reminds you, the seller, to keep in mind that while an item may be legal to sell in your country, if you are selling internationally the item may be prohibited in other countries.

Auctions also cannot be listed in a manner that would promote or encourage infringing copyright, trademark or other non-specified rights. Inclusions of authenticity disclaimers or denials of responsibility for the items listed are also prohibited.

It has been found that your listing includes one or more of the following:

· Branding for or encouragement of piracy, copyright circumvention and/or copyright infringement

· Modified consoles using modification chips or modified firmware such as: iXtreme, JTAG, PSP custom firmware, “soft mods” or flashed hard drives

· Advertisements of circumvention capabilities

I have included the links to the eBay User Agreement, the Prohibited and Restricted Items list, the Rules about Intellectual Property and the Encouraging Infringement Policy below if you care to review them further.

Encouraging Infringement Policy (Encouraging infringement policy)

Modification Policy (Mod chips, game enhancers, and boot disks policy)

Prohibited and Restricted Items list (Prohibited and restricted items)

Rules about Intellectual Property (Rules about intellectual property)

Your User Agreement (Your User Agreement)





Sincerely,



Copyright

Entertainment Software Association (ESA)

Copyright@TheESA.com

My response :

never encouraged anything other than buying my console. While Ixtreme is a modification, I did not encourage anyone to do anything illegal with it. I couldn't simply keep that private or I would be outright lieing to the buyer who I sold the item to. Which would end up costing me the auction in the end anyways. I never put the auction up internationally so in the US it has remained legal to modify anything that belongs to you. I can cite numerous laws that allow this. Funny thing that you guys literally picked me out of a hundred different auctions that had the very things you listed as being against ebay's rules such as Jtag units. Another funny coincidence is that Ebay couldn't even tell me why it was removed but yet you guys say it was removed because of Ebay's policies. If it was ebay's policies that I had violated why couldn't they cite those policy violations? Instead they passed blame on to you people. So it seems it had nothing to do with ebay but your current campaigns against anything that could remotely be considered piracy on behalf of your clients. Ebay had nothing to do with the situation or they could have easily cited any violations during my talk with them. I merely put what was modified on the console. I didn't mention backups, piracy, nor advocated doing any of those things. So I find it funny that you try to justify the removal of my auction by saying I encouraged the ability to do those things. In the US which is the country the item was auctioned in as well as stored in allows a game or other media to be copied one time under US law. So I didn't violate anything other than your "anti-pracy" crusade that had no justification to be cast down upon me. Another funny coincidence is the fact that ebay has auctions every day on items that contain "iXtreme, JTAG, PSP custom firmware, “soft mods” or flashed hard drives" but yet they sell just fine. Why is it that your company or Organization selectively chooses who violates not only your policies but Ebay's? It seems you pick and choose your battles to suit your needs. You can't enforce a policy on someone else in one instance while letting hundreds of others fly past your "hammer" on a daily basis. So it seems you decided to swing your hammer in this instance to harass someone.

But that's fine, strong arm me for no reason. I'll relist the item in question while removing any potential "ebay" violations. When they are truly "ESA's" personal violations and not "ebay" or else "ebay" would have happily told me in the first place during my interaction with their customer support line.

PS. My auction had a description that was similar to the following "DVD drive has Ixtreme firmware installed." I never “…enabled, encouraged, or instructed others to infringe copyrights, trademarks, or other rights.” in my auction. So you and your organization are effectively putting words in my mouth.

Sincerely,
the little man