FF12 International: Zodiac Job System English Conversion

[rlbond86]

Suggested Line 1 = "Damage: Halved"
Suggested Line 2 = "Immunities: Poison, Sap" or perhaps "Immune: Poison, Sap"

This still sounds confusing. Does this mean that your character takes half damage, and nullifies poison and sap attacks? It seems that is this is the case, "Halved" should be on the left, just like "Immune". But I didn't think that's what this ring does.

[dlanor]

This still sounds confusing. Does this mean that your character takes half damage, and nullifies poison and sap attacks? It seems that is this is the case, "Halved" should be on the left, just like "Immune". But I didn't think that's what this ring does.

I'm not exactly sure of what each accessory does either, but that is not the issue here, since the meaning will be the same regardless of which word order we use. The basic words still mean the same thing.

We have "Half" and "Damage:" on one line, indicating that some damage is halved.
We have "Sap", "Poison", and "Immune:" on another line meaning that those are somehow associated.

The only sensible interpretation of the second line is that it bestows total immunity to both Sap and Poison attacks, since the word "Immune" is absolute. You can't have such a thing as 'half' immunity, since that would not be an immunity at all, but merely a resistance.

According to various game guides the original property of the Tourmaline ring was indeed total immunity to Poison, though I saw no mention of Sap there. So it appears that this ring must have been redefined for the ZJS release. But I do agree that the half damage seems suspicious, as that really is an enourmous amount of protection...

But that is beside the point, as I was suggesting improved language, not a check on what the internal mechanics of the game really implements for that ring.

For cases like multiple immunities, it is not valid use of the language to put the "Immune:" at the end of the sentence like it currently is. Instead it, or something similar, needs to be at the start of the sentence, followed by the list of ailments protected against.

And if in fact it only is a case of 'half' immunity (meaning a 50% risk reduction I guess), then it should rather say something like "50% Resistance: Poison, Sap". But I truly hope this is not the case, as having only 50% resistance to any ailments (assuming the same applies to other accessories) would ruin the game as far as I'm concerned.

Best regards: dlanor

[Prelude]

I think the following guide would be of great help to this project:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/939426/49691

Tourmaline Ring | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - |B300
MV=0 | HLV: Ice | Immune: Poison, Sap |S150

New Weapons:

Trango Tower
Blood Sword A
Durandal A
Masamune I
Scorpion Tail F
Shikari no Nagasa
Shikari no Nagasa F
Guriguribanban
Byblos' Bone 
Excalipoor 
Orochi N
Dragon Whisker L
Whale Whisker N
Sagittarius A 
Zaitengrate
Gastrophetes S
Aldebaran Y
Volcano T

[Hozu]

If so, then I would call that a bug of the original ZJS implementation, which we now have an excellent opportunity to correct. There is no legitimate reason to add confusion about an item's identity by using the same name for several kinds.

While the 4 meteorites all have the same name they all do have different descriptions I believe. If you do want to name them differently you should probably go with the Meteorite A/B/C/D thing that people use to differentiate them. Also, I'm pretty sure the thing with the equips having like Disable, Immobilize Immune (Immobilize immunity was added to Black Belt because of Germinas Boots/Jackboots becoming very limited) is just a mistake in how it was translated over, perhaps that was the order they were listed in Japanese? Btw, the tourmaline ring does add sap immunity, just try to inflict sap on someone wearing it. It comes in handy if you end up taking Larsa to fight Cuchulainn (until he gets Disabled).


As for the Shikari no Nagasa, I personally think it should be kept as Danjuro simply because it uses the same model and if you rename it than it wouldn't exist in the game at all. Also, the Shikari no Nagasa F is a rare drop from Larva Eater, the same enemy that dropped the Danjuro in FF12. The picture that displays the licenses for the Shikari job (found here) offers the translation as Hunter's Machete if you don't want to keep it as Danjuro.

[ffgriever]

@ffgriever:
The only real bug in translated behaviour that still remains for me is that it remains impossible to lose the "NEW" flags on the Clan Primer bestiary for the "Elite Marks" entries, as they still have those 256+ page counts (though displayed only as 9).

I didn't get to fixing this bug yet . Most likely some of the files (again) have different number than original (so I have to find manually which file in ntsc us corresponds to particular file in zjs - I did it before for some other texts , like the first part of bestiary data ).

Ex.1: Gambit Name = "Self: Targetting Enemy"
Gambit description = "Target any foe with Float Status"

Ex.2: Gambit Name = "Self: Targetted by Ally"
Gambit description = "Target any foe with Invisible Status"

For both those cases it is clear that an old description is wrongfully associated with a new translation of a modified/added gambit entry.

Indeed, I noticed that. I didn't touch the gambit descriptions yet.

Another error is found in the "Foe:" section of the gambit lists where we have six very similar entries, one for each main character, looking like this:

Ex.3: Gambit Name = "Vaan: Targetted by Enemy"
Gambit description = none

This is clearly a case of too literal translation, not fitting western languages, as this makes it appear as if we will target Vaan, whenever he is targetted by an enemy, which is hardly the case since this gambit is in the section for those targetting enemies only. So I believe that the correct translation should instead be "Foe: Targetting Vaan" and so on for the other five characters. (I have tested that these gambits do work that way.)

Indeed, you're right. It's just that I am not used to the japanese nomenclature (in jap version the foe/ally/self is at the end, beginning or there is no indication at all ). And yes, it's literal translation. I didn't pay too much attention to the names, as I hoped someone would aid me with the proper translation. But I guess I will have to get through the names again and make it the proper way .

There are some gambits I'm not sure at all what they do "Concentrated" and "Distributed Attack". Both are "Foe" gambits. Got to check these.

Same for "Enemy count" gambits (they're in foe, ally and self sections... and I'm not sure if all are about enemies, as in one of them the counter suggests it's ally count, which makes no sense to me... But now as I see it, there was direction indicator at the end after enemy, so this time the "Ally" was at the beginning at the subject of count at the end... I told you, their nomenclature sucks... Just as my japanese so it should be in this case "Ally: Enemy Count > 2", because it says "Ally, on enemy side there is not less than 3").

There is also "enemy remaining", which I'm not sure about (is it about items or what?). It certainly looks like "Foe: AMT >= 10"

That ends my complaints about the gambits, but I have a very similar 'word order' complaint about some of the accessory descriptions, such as the one for the "Tourmaline Ring" (just one of many), which is described like this:

Ex.4: Descr. Line 1 = "Half Damage:"
Description Line 2 = "Poison, SapImmune:"

While that is understandable, it is not proper use of the language, which should rather be:
Suggested Line 1 = "Damage: Halved"
Suggested Line 2 = "Immunities: Poison, Sap" or perhaps "Immune: Poison, Sap"

The second choice for line 2 would reduce its string length by 4 characters, and would also make the lower string 'line up' better with the word "Damage:" on the line above. So that may be the best choice, though less 'correct' IMO than the first alternative.

The problem is, that I didn't touch these at all... It's the game that makes them appear this way. It is fixable, though.

The other problem is that item icon (the big one) is shifted too much to the left, which makes it almost invisible on many crt tv sets.

Finally there appear to be some duplicate items, without any way to tell them apart either by icon or by name. I have two different entries for "Meteorite" in my inventory, both using the same icon too. Since that is the icon used for "Knot of Rust" etc I assume it is an item I can throw at enemies for non-elemental damage, but there should be some difference in the name too. The only difference I can see (without using them up) is that a trader offers me only 10 Gil apiece for one kind, but 1000 Gil apiece for the other. That makes it easy enough to guess which has the stronger effect, but some more detailed name is still preferable.

Indeed, I've noticed some item names being repeated. It's the way it was done in the original. I guess it would be reasonable to change the names. But how should they be named? A/B/C/D would do the trick but would sound a little bit harsh...

Anyway, the next thing to fix is the bestiary (the text itself, not its appearance). I believe some mistakes here may cause some weird problems in some parts of the game.

PS. Anyway, I will need a help of someone efficient in japanese language. Now I just realized that I don't know Japanese as well as I thought I did. It's enough to get the point (usually) but is absolutely useless when actual translation has to be done .

I hope there is someone that would like to waste some time on this. Otherwise it might be a chore... and the result certainly will stand out of the original translation (in the bad way, unfortunately).

[Hozu]

@ffgriever: Here is a useful guide to aid your translation efforts (JP > EN). There are a couple mistakes (notably Dispel Mote is missing) but it should be quite useful. As for the Meteorites I mentioned a possible solution in my previous post, which would be to make the item descriptions different (since that's the way they are anyways). Also, here is a sticky on another message board with Gambit translations (JP > EN again). I had to copy the post to notepad and set the font to something that displayed the characters though (MS Gothic works for me) since IE is a pain and only displays the characters in the text guides.

Edit: As for bugs, I found these in v0.11 but you didn't mention them in v0.12 so they may be still present. The gambit display is messed up for the longer gambit names (text extends too far) simply because the display area is smaller than in the NA release (maybe PAL ones too). In the JP releases the 12 "bars" where the gambits are don't extend all the way across the screen, and display a... shadow of the character on the left of the screen (I can't spell the right word for it ). In the NA release these "bars" extend all the way across the screen, covering the shadow, which allows enough room for the longer gambits. The same sort of problem arises in shops with longer item names (again, pretty sure only the gambits).

Edit 2: I just started messing around with v0.12 and I find this quite impressive. There are a few kinks and typos to be worked out though. In the job description of Black Mage the plural of Staff is Staves, not Staffs, and for Samurai I believe you meant to say Sight Unseeing rather than Darkness.

[ffgriever]

@ffgriever: Here is a useful guide to aid your translation efforts (JP > EN).

Most of the items are the same. There is just a few new items. But their names are rather straightforward. Plus I cannot just use whatever I find in the internet (plus the author wrote that no portion of it can be distributed without his/her written permission - actually hacking FF12IntZJS is against the license, but there are some licenses we do respect /when people do something for free, just to make fans happy/, while not the others ).

BTW. In the file containing item names, there are additional motes, fangs and other items, which were not covered in this guide... But I'm not sure, whether they're used in the game or not (or maybe they're just some kind of attack names? there are new enemies anyway).

Also, here is a sticky on another message board with Gambit translations (JP > EN again).

Thanks. I couldn't use it due to the same reason as above. But it ensured me, that my guesses were right (you will see something else in 0.12, but I posted it before I revised some of the names)..

I had to copy the post to notepad and set the font to something that displayed the characters though (MS Gothic works for me) since IE is a pain and only displays the characters in the text guides.

Never had problems with that. But I don't use IE at all (well, except tests) - it would be quite hard, considering that there is no IE port for linux (which I use half of the day, if not more).

Edit: As for bugs, I found these in v0.11 but you didn't mention them in v0.12 so they may be still present. The gambit display is messed up for the longer gambit names (text extends too far) simply because the display area is smaller than in the NA release (maybe PAL ones too). In the JP releases the 12 "bars" where the gambits are don't extend all the way across the screen, and display a... shadow of the character on the left of the screen (I can't spell the right word for it ). In the NA release these "bars" extend all the way across the screen, covering the shadow, which allows enough room for the longer gambits. The same sort of problem arises in shops with longer item names (again, pretty sure only the gambits).

I've noticed that (hard to miss, really ;P ). I'll have to find a way to change the placement and sizes of some textboxes (I guess that in this kind of game they're not stored in the executable but in some sort of scene composition files for menus).

Edit 2: I just started messing around with v0.12 and I find this quite impressive. There are a few kinks and typos to be worked out though. In the job description of Black Mage the plural of Staff is Staves, not Staffs, and for Samurai I believe you meant to say Sight Unseeing rather than Darkness.

Staves - I know that, I swear . I don't know why did I use the incorrect form. Sight Unseeing - you're right (there was 暗闇殺法 "killing the darkness", but I got it wrong for some reason - there is no "darkness" magic nor technic /there is dark-darkra-darkga though/).

PS. I've noticed yesterday, that some characters in the game have no names at all (for the first time I've seen it in bhujerba, where some "Shop Clerks" had only "Circle" floating above them but no names) - I'll fix that.

[Prelude]

When you enter Eruyt Village for the first time, it seems like something is skipped during the cutscene, hard to explain but you can see for yourself with the attached save.

6:30 http://www.youtube.com/user/rinimt#p...90/q4ECobNsHtM

Also, some things I've noticed:

Gendarme is named incorrectly as Escutcheon

Aero Mote - A mote containing the power of Water.
Water Mote - A mote containing the power of Aero.
Bio Mote - A mote containing the power of Holy.
Shock Mote - A mote containing the power of Scathe.

+ more as you scroll down the list.

[dlanor]

I think the following guide would be of great help to this project:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/939426/49691

But like ffgriever already stated, such guides can only be used to help us understand exactly what an item or ability in the game does. But we can't directly reuse an existing translation without explicit permission by the author(s).

Tourmaline Ring | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - |B300
MV=0 | HLV: Ice | Immune: Poison, Sap |S150

Ah, that explains the mysterious "Half Damage:" which seemed not to be true, since the ring certainly doesn't halve all types of damage.

Apparently that "Half Damage:" part only related to elemental attacks of the Ice element, which was not clear to me from the text shown in the game. Looking at the description in the game again now, I do see that the words "Half Damage:" are preceded by a Cyan-coloured circle which evidently is supposed to represent "Elemental effect for Ice attacks ==" So that the first line can be read as:

"Elemental effect for Ice attacks == Half Damage:" and presumably the Cyan circle may be replaced by several circles in a row if some item protects against more than one element.

A horrible example of how that can look is then the description of "Manufacted Nethicite", as each of the 8 coloured circles is there followed by squares in various shades of white/grey/black, and ultimately followed by the words "Half Damage:" still on the same line. Finding a clear way to express this stuff is probably not possible if we also insist on using correct language. So some kind of compromize between the correct and the concise will be necessary.

For these cases of elemental effect 'halving' I suggest placing the string "Half Damage:" at the start of the line, followed by the list of coloured circles representing the various elements so affected by the accessory. And the weird squares of varied white/grey/black colour should simply be removed, as they serve no purpose (possibly removed kanji).

So for the "Tourmaline ring" this would then look something like this:

Half Damage: O
Immunities: Poison, Sap

But for "Manufacted Nethicite" it should instead look something like this:

Magick Resist: 3
Half Damage: O O O O O O O O
Equip Status: Silence

Except of course that all of those 'O' characters should have been filled circles instead (I just don't know how to enter such a symbol in the browser.)

Best regards: dlanor

[Prelude]

in the US version it is shown like this:

Half Damage: O O O O O O O O
Equip: Silence