The above video goes away if you are a member and logged in, so log in now!
View Poll Results: What do you think of current donation based homebrew Vs mandatory payment based homebrew?
- 24. You may not vote on this poll
Keep it the same, donation based homebrew?
A required payment for homebrew
Or you simply don't care?
Your opinion on Donations vs mandatory Payments on homebrew
Your opinion on Donations vs mandatory Payments on homebrew –
Hey guys I thought I would actually put up a post on what you guys think about donations vs payments.
But let me first clarify, donations are the same definition as they have always been. A voluntary compensation for goods, or services to an individual or entity.
A mandatory payment is just what the name suggests. A payment to an individual which is mandatory in order to receive those goods, or services. Basically the picture perfect definition of Amazon, walmart, or any other commercial business.
Now I am starting this topic in off topic so people can discuss as well as vote. I have started this topic off on a good and respectful foot, so let's try and keep it that way. The main "fiasco" thread got locked because of some highly heated debates which I contributed too.
People already know I have an extremely strong opinion on this as well as numerous other things in this scene. I ask that if I can keep my opinion as respectful as possible if you can give me the courtesy to do the same. That way we will let the community at large decide what you would like too see.
Would you rather have free homebrew with a donation link which has been the standard, or depending on the quality of service would you be willing to go for a mandatory payment to unlock the ability to use that homebrew, or a completely different option.. you don't care?
For me, it depends on the homebrew. I would happily pay, if there was no other option, for the ability to play my PS1/2 backups on 3.55 (to my dismay, OPL isn't sufficient due to slow access speeds via external HDD) but I wouldn't pay for a skin for an already free application.
I'll pay for functionality, not visual. Though naturally I would prefer a free open-source alternative with the option of donating to the developer.
Originally Posted by squarepusher2
I completely agree. I'm willing to pay something that furthers the functionality of the entire device. But that doesn't mean that I approve of the scene turning back into the PSjailbreak stuff where everything of value in regards to exploits has a price. It honestly depends on the quality of software and how valuable it is to the scene.
Originally Posted by sabin1981
Something like 3.6x CFW or like you said PS1/2 support I would pay a price if it gives the developers incentive to release it. But basic homebrew or emulators, no I wouldn't.
That said, it seems we may have to resort to PSJB-type devices. The only ones with the tools and knowledge, refuse to support, and the ones without the tools and knowledge are clamouring for it. Cobra is a commercial device that offers a great deal of what we want... and they aren't letting some moral ePolice bullshit deter them from releasing.
If it comes down to buying a product that furthers functionality of the machine, as opposed to sitting and waiting in hope that some elitist prick will stop being a cyber-cop.... I'll take the pay-for product. Some things are worth paying for, some aren't. In a way I do feel bad for shagratt, he did only what he thought was right --- but in the end, that mentality just doesn't mesh with the scene. The scene is open-source, free, homebrew software that enhances the functionality or the appearance. Nobody else started charging for "themes" or "homebrew" - so naturally it was going to cause all hell to erupt. As squarepusher said; This ISN'T the appstore.
Originally Posted by squarepusher2
exactly and this is not a device even not an app its just a theme ppl made a lot of themes for multiMAN include dean himself ..
they never take advantage of it .
i dont care about his theme for money or for free all i care is about members they complaints .
I completely agree. I voted to Keep it the Same, but that was based on the current brew we have available. If there was something to get released that was simply mindblowing, I'm sure people would donate and depending on what it is, they'd pay for it. I've donated to devs that release brew and cfw (psp and ps3) but I looked at it as a payment for their effort in bringing something creative to everyone simply because they're doing it for free, their own increase in knowledge and that what they're delivering is amazing. Like, for example, if I knew of a way to donate to kmeaw, I would surely do it. But I think before a brew should be mandatory pay, it should first have previous betas or demos of it so people would know what they'll be getting in to.
Don't Feed The Trolls Past Midnight
i'd pay for it, because the simple reason is that the people who make them, give up there spare time and for that im thankful for what ever they do for us. hate it when people moan about this isn't working etc, as time is money but there getting it for free so no point in moaning.
So you mean it can be the sames?
Originally Posted by sabin1981
Back to the off,
The problem here is not only donations vs payments but where should be the money spent by many users.
The payments for the cabinet is clearly bad:
As it was said, this is not the apple store.
People think Multiman creator is also involve. (i really read fews comments to complain against Dean, but not in this site)
Personally i ll be really happy if everyone who contributed can received a tons of donation, like Dean, Squarepusher, etc..even Mathieulh (Yes, his name has to appears in every thread) but we know it can t be like this. Money and exploit don t grow up on trees.
SO where should go the money?
To the games companies.
As i believe hack don t hurt that bad, at the end of your life console you ll end with less or more the same number of games, hack or not. The lessons and excuse about the warez bs from some devs, i just don t take it.
But let s face it.
If you paid for a crappy dongle, or even flash your ps3 ( yes, outside some are that stupid) or now home brews you ll be spent less (or nothing) on original games.
The first how need support is the (second hand or not)shop of your block.
Yes, i know, second hand games don t contribute directly to the games companies, but at the end it ll. Don t need to explain the circuit, big image is the money you have in your pocket is better to end on a shop where you can find original new games.
It s hard to explain my point of view from my bad english and also i m trying to be as neutral as possible. But i m not, and i m not the only one.
May be someone who don t know and don t care at all about videos games industry can have a good judgment.
Thanks you for this topic, i m still thinking on it.
I wasn't very comprehensive in my response to the shagratt thread, so I'm going to elaborate: If a developer (any person who produces a good or service) wants to charge for their work, go for it. I'm not saying I agree with it. I'm not saying it's a good idea. If you think you can go commercial, the sky is the limit.
That said, there are certain roadblocks. Multiman is the most popular piece of homebrew I can think of off the of my head. If Dean started charging for MM, I'm willing to wager a small but profitable percentage of his user base would start paying. I'm no expert, but I believe MM is compiled with the official Sony SDK. Start charging for a product based off of that, and you may find yourself in some pretty hot water. Then there's the whole argument about open manager blahblahblah. We've all heard that argument drawn out to death. Honestly, I'd be surprised considering all the revisions it's gone through, if MM even remotely resembles the software it was originally based on. I guess what I'm trying to say is if Dean were to transition over to psl1ght, there would be little to no restrictions keeping him from going commercial. There are however logical reasons why doing so may not be wise.
If you have a large user base, and rely on donations, switching over to a commercial model will invariably cut into your freeware base and you may find that the commercial gains are negated by the loss of donating users. If your good/service is more specialized with a small user base who are highly dependent on your work, you would likely do much better than you would with donations. This does not discount other risks, such as free competitors gaining traction or people outright bypassing whatever security mechanisms you put in place. That is a huge deterrent to anyone in this scene from going commercial.
Just out of principle, if your product is ethically sound, you should be able to charge for it if you so choose. It's your right as far as I'm concerned and its not a bad thing if done well. The reason I and some of the others joined in with our pitchforks earlier wasn't to defend our freebies, it was based upon the outrage we felt over a terrible execution of the for profit model.
If you're going to charge for your work, don't disguise it as a donation, because it's not, and calling it so is insulting to potential customers. It's also important to make sure you're not infringing on another's intellectual property rights with your commercial interests.
Personally, I think going commercial in this homebrew scene would be a waste of time for the vast majority of contributors out there. The big problem I see is that the way in which most of you try to encourage donations is highly ineffective. I have an adblock extentsion. When I first downloaded it, a little screen popped up with a picture of the creator and his wife with a little note about how he completely relies on user donations to feed his family. This is how I became an active donator in the software community. All it took was a picture and my heart melted. He made it personal and that's why I donated. This is just one example of doing it right. There are many other ways to get the point across effectively. You've got to be bold and in the users face without being invasive. I know that sounds hard but I've seen it done countless times before and I know you guys are capable of doing the same. Upon first running your app, how about along with the usual disclaimers you include a picture and some dialogue (such a thing is very hard to ignore).
Well this fiasco has definitely told the community which developers are in it for the community, and which developers are soon to be in it only for the money. I won't name those names individually but if you look at the two topics you can see them for yourself.
I guarantee this scene won't last much longer the way it is. Their will be two different kinds of developers, ones that go for paid only content, and ones that go for free content with a donation link. We've already seen the split. shagratt and his supporters(won't name them individually in case I'm wrong as I don't wanna be the one blamed for him quitting, or actually doing what I said. So I'll keep it out of here.) lean towards the paid argument, and people like Square lean towards the free+donation or even without a donation link.
Shame really. This scene could be the best scene in the console area. But with all these developments, the scene overlords, and Sony it won't amount to anything.
Also like the above poster mentioned if someone like dean goes for a paid service in respect to MM it would be entirely illegal. As MM is technically illegal now considering it is made with the Official SDK from Sony. Square verified that it uses the Sony SDK just like his own homebrew. So if anyone attached to the Sony SDK decides to go pay only, expect a shit storm with Sony and rightly so.(Square would never do it. But I'm not sure on the rest)
Also to anyone that comes in here and uses the argument that we are all greedy, ungrateful, and leechers. This has nothing to do with the fact that we want everything on a silver platter. It's based on the principle that this scene was from the very beginning since psgroove first came out, on the fact that everything is community drive and open source + free. I don't mind people going into the commercial world, but don't use this scene for it. It's not hard to put up a website and start selling your personal work. But leave the scene to what philosophies it was founded on. But people know what I mean. I don't like people like dean, shagratt, and their supporters saying we are greedy, arrogant, and ungrateful members when the same could apply to them. I mean no disrespect to dean but when he starts that tired argument like the scene overlords then I do mean disrespect. Don't sit their and preach about how people just want everything on a silver platter when you have someone that purposely tested the waters to see if he could start a business venture. Donations are fine, but when someone releases something for the sole purpose of profiting don't expect people to blindly follow you into that new venture. Especially the way it was executed. Your asking for trouble so don't start bitching when people bitch about it. Plus when they start complaining don't get into that argument.
Last edited by xPreatorianx; 06-14-2011 at 06:27 PM.