Visual Basic or C++

[FlynMonkeez]

I have a choice of taking either Visual Basic or C++. I really don't have a background on programming but im good with this kinda stuff. So which one should I pick?

[inferno]

Definitely C++ IMHO... VB is ok -- if youre gonna code kidstuff... but if you want real control & power , C++ is *THE* language. Apart from advantages like cross-platform support & stuff, other languages like Java become real easy to master if u know C++, as they have a lot in common.

[Sapherz]

do both, if thats not an option then go C++

[FlynMonkeez]

i can do both, but after 1 yeer. so i would have to take vb then after on yeer i would have to take c++

[KaiphaN]

c++, i would find it really hard to learn vb 1 year and then change language and understand C++ the next year so if you take a class take c++ because its used more than vb right now.

[ThAD0oD]

i took a 4 week vb course (it was over the course of a year though) and i learned a shit load about basic programming, i forget it all now though

but after that i took a 2 week course of c++, and let me tell you its much easier to learn c++ because you have a basic knowledge of how programming works.....

it'll help ya, but if you have logic skills, you'd be good

[hehbo2k2]

Hehe yeah dood . I took a 1 year Per-Algebra course in middle school, during that time i read my graphic calculator's manual, and got pretty good at basic... now I'm using C++ for dummies HEHEHE. I think teaching yourself works better than taking a class.
//hehbo2k3

[inferno]

Originally posted by hehbo2k2
I think teaching yourself works better than taking a class.
//hehbo2k3

That is one point I strongly stress upon... teaching yourself always works better than courses. I 1st learned C++ during the turbo /borland c++ days by reading robert lafore's book... one of the best books to get for c++ now is "the complete reference - C++" by Herb Schildt or the book by Brian Kernighan- the inventor. Also, Experimenting with code also helps a lot.

[meyousikmann]

Originally posted by inferno
teaching yourself always works better than courses.

If the self-taught individual has been formally trained in a prior circumstance, I may agree that teaching yourself a new language would be acceptable. However, If we are talking about an individual that has no formal training in computer science, I'm afraid I must disagree with the teach yourself idea. As a practicing software engineer for the last 10 years, I must say that I can pick out a "self-taught" version of code (from someone with no formal training) as opposed to code that was written by a "shool-taught" individual in a heartbeat. Most people that want to teach themselves programming only get a book on the language and don't seem to realize that there is also practical theory behind programming that is more than just the language. Learning to program by just learning the language without understanding the underlying fundamentals is like giving a non-English speaking person an English dictionary and telling them to learn to speak English. Sure, they will be able to figure out the meanings of words and probably string some together to communicate, but will the sentence structure be correct? Would you like to communicate with that individual every day of your life when you are constantly fixing verb tenses and noun modifiers to try to understand what that person is saying? Let me ask you "self-taught" programmers a few questions.....do you know what a recursive process is. Do you know what an iterative processes. Do you know the difference? Do you know the "consequences" of using one as opposed to the other. Which one do you apply in which situation? Why should you comment your code? Isn't code self-documenting? Why should you make a procedure local to another procedure as opposed to simply making it global? I could go on, but I think you get my point. If all you did was learn the language, you would not be able to answer these questions. It is unfair to tell someone that has never had any formal training to just go get a book and teach yourself when you don't understand for yourself why formal training serves a purpose (and is most likely required to get a job in a computer science field). There is also something very important that you get from formal training that you don't get from learning a language on your own........logical and practical advice based on solid experience.

[inferno]

Originally posted by meyousikmann
If the self-taught individual has been formally trained in a prior circumstance, I may agree that teaching yourself a new language would be acceptable. However, If we are talking about an individual that has no formal training in computer science, I'm afraid I must disagree with the teach yourself idea. As a practicing software engineer for the last 10 years, I must say that I can pick out a "self-taught" version of code (from someone with no formal training) as opposed to code that was written by a "shool-taught" individual in a heartbeat. Most people that want to teach themselves programming only get a book on the language and don't seem to realize that there is also practical theory behind programming that is ...........

Sheesh! No offense , but thats a load of shit. Yeah, you have a point there - some people just get a book & think they have mastered the language just by reading the book - that is where theyre mistaken. Theyre like script kiddies - just getting a few facts straight.
HOWEVER, a self-tutored guy who has real interest for a programming langauage & has himself tried out coding (with a book to act as a reference mabey) will definitely kick a tutored guys a$$.

Regarding your numerous queries like ".....do you know what a recursive process is" - sure we do, and that is exactly the kind of question I would expect from a tutored guy - just definations. If youve been coding for as long as you say, you should know by now that a coder automatically learns all these. Teaching people to follow only a definite set of rules can never match the knowledge a coder gains by experimenting with code himself.

I , 4 one, never had any formal training in the field of computers, but NEVER found it hard to get a grip on any language. I would say that its all a matter of how willing a person is to learn. All this "have to have formal training" is a POS.

Also, half the Debian Linux team are self-taught coders, many ground breaking softwares were coded by self-taught coders... I have nothing against people who go to institutes to get trained , but I woudnt go and say they are better than self taught ones.

Instead of all the definations & stuff youve asked, I ask you "formally educated" guys just to code a program to solve the Dining Philosophers Problem (without copying it from somewhere).