PS1 backups update?

[JCDes]

@JCDes:
If you really want to revive an obsolete disc-swapping method, then I suggest doing that in some other forum, as it has nothing to do with FMCB-related topics.

I don't in any way mean to sound rude but...

That did not answer my question.

Since the thread title is ps1 backups update and the hex file I'm talking about does NOT require swapping for ps1 discs and it boots from a usb port I am NOT reviving any obsolete method since it works (it does boot directly)... I'm speaking of something relevant to the thread topic (booting ps1 discs)...

I know .elf's can be compiled to intel hex... I was just asking if the hex could be turned into a working elf or maybe integrate part of it's code thus solving the ps1 backups issue... Maybe?

But I guess the answer to my question is "No hex files cannot be converted to elf files"????

To the people that do not understand what I'm talking about I'm talking about the hex file used in the pic 12c508a used in an old usb modchip which boots ps1 backups directly. Do not start thinking that there is some kind of file floating around that can boot ps1 games... I'm just asking if the file could maybe in some way be used as an elf to inject the boot info...

[dlanor]

I don't in any way mean to sound rude but...

That did not answer my question.

It wasn't intended as an answer. But when a quick google search on "NeoKey" yielded tons of hits with descriptions of various disc swapping methods for use with that USB unit, I assumed that this was its purpose. Hence I responded in that fashion.

Since the thread title is ps1 backups update and the hex file I'm talking about does NOT require swapping for ps1 discs and it boots from a usb port I am NOT reviving any obsolete method since it works (it does boot directly)... I'm speaking of something relevant to the thread topic (booting ps1 discs)...

If what you say here is really true, then it is something we should investigate closer, but let me recapitulate what I see as the claim here, so you can confirm if that is what you meant.

1: The NeoKey is just something you plug into the USB port of a completely unmodified PS2
2: When plugged in that way, the software it contains auto-boots somehow
3: The effect when booted is that burned PS1 games may be used just as if they were originals

If all of that is really true, then I'd expect to have heard much more of this kind of thing, and USB-based homebrew booters would have been the dominant mod method, if it really is possible for a completely unmodded PS2 to boot code from such a unit.

I know .elf's can be compiled to intel hex...

I'm not sure exactly what you mean here, but I assume that the 'hex' file you refer to is what is used to flash the chip you spoke of earlier.

I was just asking if the hex could be turned into a working elf or maybe integrate part of it's code thus solving the ps1 backups issue... Maybe?

I am not aware of any method by which a normal PS2 elf can affect the distinction between a burned and an original CD game, as that should normally be the task of the mechacon, which is running a fixed program that we have no way of modifying.

But I also don't see how plugging a USB device into the PS2 can affect the work of the mechacon either, so there appears to be something missing in my information here, whether it is the 'NeoKey' claims that are mis-stated, or there really is some software way to trick the mechacon into accepting burned CDs as being pressed originals.

But I guess the answer to my question is "No hex files cannot be converted to elf files"????

Not directly.

If a USB device is built around that chip, then the program for that chip is not in itself a MIPS program for the processors of the PS2, but a program enabling the device to perform USB protocol handshaking so as to interact in some to me unknown way with the USB interface of the console. One possible thing this can be used for is to load a program from the device, just as you would from a normal memory stick, and that program may then be possible to convert to a normal elf, if it can be found in and extracted from the hex file.

But the first thing to do is to try to understand how that NeoKey works and why it can have any effect on the boot process, because that is still entirely unclear to me.

To the people that do not understand what I'm talking about I'm talking about the hex file used in the pic 12c508a used in an old usb modchip which boots ps1 backups directly.

Now you're just messing things up again. Is it a modchip or is it a USB unit ?
You really can't have it both ways.

A real modchip interacts with hardware internal to the console, and is connected directly to that hardware. And that is exactly what you earlier said that this unit is not, being connected only by plugging it into the USB interface.

That means it can not directly interact with any other hardware than the USB interface, and its operation is entirely up to the bios firmware. And I still don't see why Sony would add some peculiar boot method to their USB interface. It makes no sense to me at all.

Do not start thinking that there is some kind of file floating around that can boot ps1 games... I'm just asking if the file could maybe in some way be used as an elf to inject the boot info...

It is theoretically possible that it contains some MIPS code that can be extracted and reused in other ways, but only if and when we completely understand how that USB device worked and how it interacted with the Sony bios.

I'll make some more searches on this subject and see if I can find some in-depth description of how it works. But I must say I'm still very sceptical about it...

Best regards: dlanor

[dlanor]

I am now even more sceptical about the NeoKey claims above, having found this site.

And on that page I found the following text:

There are two parts to installing the PS2 NEOKEY. There is the interior installation, where you have to solder the wire to the motherboard, and there is the installation of the NeoKey itself which connects to the USB port on your PS2 console.

As I interpret this, the NeoKey does require internal hardware modification of the PS2 in order to work at all, making the entire concept useless for a true soft-mod like FMCB.

I'll read a little more about it to confirm this stuff, but I'm pretty sure that's how it is.

Best regards: dlanor

[JCDes]

Ok... The neo key (usbmod) is in fact a modchip 12C508A that is used via usb and one single jumper inside the console.... But it does in fact direct boot ps1 backups and boots ps2 cd backups by using gameshark and ripped dvd games to CD... But, it does boot ps1 backups directly...

The only thing that I care about it's features is that it can boot ps1 backups directly... So that is why I wonder if this code could be converted to an elf...

Here's the schematic used to build it... Maybe someone can figure out if it can be done... Also included jumper points. the jumper is what I never understood the purpose maybe usb +data??? But still beats me how it loads...

Again this is just to see if maybe it can be converted to an elf or used as reference to create an elf... I got the hex files in case somebody knowledgeable may want to mess with the conversion...

But this does in fact boots psx backups from usb directly...

[JCDes]

The jumper is for usb +data

[dlanor]

Ok... The neo key (usbmod) is in fact a modchip 12C508A that is used via usb and one single jumper inside the console.... But it does in fact direct boot ps1 backups and boots ps2 cd backups by using gameshark and ripped dvd games to CD... But, it does boot ps1 backups directly...

That is no longer interesting. Since it requires a hardware modification of the PS2 motherboard it can never be reimplemented for a pure softmod like FMCB.

The only thing that I care about it's features is that it can boot ps1 backups directly...

But in the FMCB forum we also care about doing it without modifying the PS2 hardware.

So that is why I wonder if this code could be converted to an elf...

I doubt that there is any MIPS code in it.

Here's the schematic used to build it... Maybe someone can figure out if it can be done... Also included jumper points. the jumper is what I never understood the purpose maybe usb -data??? But still beats me how it loads...

I don't think this is the complete design, even for the hardware, as there is no explanation at all of the jumper usage, and the connection point photos don't even include what PS2 model they refer to.

Again this is just to see if maybe it can be converted to an elf or used as reference to create an elf... I got the hex files in case somebody knowledgeable may want to mess with the conversion...

The file as a whole can obviously not be 'converted' as it is intended to make that chip behave as a USB device. The only question is whether that USB device is ever used to load any program into the PS2. If so then that program may exist as a subsection within the hex file, suitable for extraction.

But I am having serious doubts about the feasibility of this, because even if there is an elf hidden in there, I still don't see why or how such an elf would get loaded.

I'm beginning to think that the USB device part of the NeoKey design is only intended to pass the state of the toggle switch into the PS2 where it somehow interacts through the jumpered points on the motherboard, possibly to fool the mechacon about the disc state.

But this does in fact boots psx backups from usb directly...

Perhaps, but apparently not without PS2 hardware modifications, and that rules it out for use with FMCB.

Best regards: dlanor

[JCDes]

But in the FMCB forum we also care about doing it without modifying the PS2 hardware.

Me too! I don't want to internal mods either, that's why I wanted to know if the code could be ported to an elf or loaded thru an elf...

I don't think this is the complete design, even for the hardware, as there is no explanation at all of the jumper usage, and the connection point photos don't even include what PS2 model they refer to.

That is a v3 board, I did not want to post all versions it would be useless... You don't have to think about the design it does work period since that is the one I used back in 2001 when I modded my first Ps2 and my friends ps2's with this, back then I modded v3's-V7's just for fun, they would buy the blank chips and I would program them and build the thing just for fun LOL...

Thanks for your time anyways... FMCB ROCKS!!!

[Ex-Cyber]

I can't really look at it right now, but I'm 99% sure that the jumper is just for the usual SCEX signal, i.e. the thing is not a USB device in the least, it's just using the fact that power/ground are pre-wired to the port to cut a couple wires from the installation.

[dlanor]

I can't really look at it right now, but I'm 99% sure that the jumper is just for the usual SCEX signal, i.e. the thing is not a USB device in the least, it's just using the fact that power/ground are pre-wired to the port to cut a couple wires from the installation.

I agree, though I think there's a little more to it, as the switch in the plug-in part needs to be used differently when booting PS1 vs PS2 CDs.

But it really does not matter, since it is clear that the jumper modification inside the PS2 is required for any NeoKey functionality, and that makes all the rest irrelevant.

FMCB should never be made dependent on any hardware modifications.

Best regards: dlanor

[JCDes]

FMCB should never be made dependent on any hardware modifications.

That's clear, nobody wants HW mods plus nobody mentioned it...

I agree, though I think there's a little more to it, as the switch in the plug-in part needs to be used differently when booting PS1 vs PS2 CDs.

It's an on off switch (turn on for backups turn off for originals).

Never mind all that, the code cannot be converted to boot ps1 backups directly as an elf without HW mods... That answers my question, thank you guys...