Snes0.2.4_USB question

[Asterix]

Hello!
Couldn't find proper thread to post this question I think...
It's like this I run Snes0.2.4_USB from MC and it finds the ROMs on the pendrive. So far no problem. The problems starts when I'm going to save.
Is it supose to take that long to save a game? I tried with donkeykong country 3.
What is the difference between "save game state" and "save game SRAM"?
Anyway I tried with save game state, it took really long to make the save but an additional save doens't work the game always goes back to the first save when I try to load the save game state? Am I doing something wrong?

[Asterix]

The help here is really excellent.........................................

[Northbear]

It is indeed excellent help here.

More Infos from you would have been great like the ps2 model, usb device, and MC brand/type.

The save problem depends on your hardware so without the informations from you it would be a guessing game to say where exactly the problem is.

Long time for saving seems pretty normal for mentioned DKC3 and same applies to DKC2. The time used for saving was around 2 minutes on original Sony MC.

Modern large MC's are very slow compared to original Sony MC for saving games, this applies to PS2 games and homebrew as well.

So if using larger MC the time may be between 3 to 6 mintues.


Best regards
Northbear

[dlanor]

Hello!
Couldn't find proper thread to post this question I think...
It's like this I run Snes0.2.4_USB from MC and it finds the ROMs on the pendrive. So far no problem. The problems starts when I'm going to save.
Is it supose to take that long to save a game? I tried with donkeykong country 3.
What is the difference between "save game state" and "save game SRAM"?

"Save game SRAM" means to save the current emulated 'SRAM' data to a permanent file. If you choose to do that then a new "*.SRM" file will be added to the PS2 gamesave folder "mc0:/SNES_EMU/", and that file will have a name prefix (replacing the "*" I wrote above) derived from the name of the ROM file, by using its first 27 characters.

NB: This means that ALL your ROM files need to have names that differ somewhere in the first 27 characters, which I know is NOT the case in several publicly available ROM collections. They often have multiple versions of many games, with the only difference being somewhere near the end of super-long filenames (several hundred characters for some), even though the ROM difference is significant (like japanese VS english). In SNES-station such similar-named ROMs will either be treated as identical or as unusable, depending on circumstances. Having separate saves for them will NOT work properly.

The SRAM method allows you to preserve the saves made in-game to the emulated SRAM, so that each ROM used gets its own separate SRAM usage. The matching SRM file is reloaded (if present on MC) each time a ROM file is launched, but you must always confirm its saving manually on closing the emulation (or turning off the console). Otherwise you'll lose your game progress from that ROM session.

"Save game state" will save the entire current runtime state of the emulation to an "*.001" file in the above-mentioned MC folder, and here again the "*" name prefix will in fact be derived as before from the ROM filename, so that individual save states may exist for each ROM.

This latter method allows you to preserve an exact game state even if the game itself has no gamesave commands. Such state files will only be loaded on explicit user command.

Anyway I tried with save game state, it took really long to make the save but an additional save doens't work the game always goes back to the first save when I try to load the save game state? Am I doing something wrong?

I'm not sure what you mean here. The current implementation allows only for a single savestate file per ROM, with the ".001" extension. It was obviously intended to add support for more (".002", ".003", etc) but this was never done.

I have myself tested using "Save Game State" command repeatedly, and then tested (after some movement in-game) that using "Load Game State" always revives the state I had when making the most recent save.

However, there is a bug in SNES-Station that may strike for all kinds of saving, and is easily recognized for SRAM saves by the weird fact that saving appears to be instantaneous. Whenever this happens it means that no save is being made, and that may explain the phenomenon you got of 'always go back to the first save', even when you had tried making new saves. I'm not sure how this problem can be recognized when striking for save states, as I always use SRAM saves when available.

As for the difference in time delay when saves work correctly, the reason is obvious. SRAM saves only store an 8KB file fetched from a single data array of the emulator, whereas the state saves store a lot more data containing the entire runtime state of the emulator, collected from tons of arrays and runtime variables.

The size of a state file can vary, the ones I have ranging from appx 90KB up to 118KB, so even the smallest is over 11 times larger than an SRAM save, which in itself explains a lot of its extra delay, especially if you use a large MC (thus slower than the standard ones).

Best regards: dlanor

[Asterix]

In the beginning I was kind of sarcastic. But now you gave really good replies but Northbear is right I did not present full stats.
I got v11 PS2 (it's rare and not a slime version)
Think it's speciall european version.
I have the latest FMCB and 4.39uL
Original Sony 8MB.
USB is and MAX drive. Got it with ARMAX
I have been testing with both the USB and hdd2 versions of the elf. Think it was similar result.
Ok trying to see if I have gotten this right.
I first have to make an in game save to use SRAM if its possible to use SRAM?
I think I get that Save game state saves everything.
So it's like this I have tested SRAM and it starts to save I guess and it takes about a minute to save. When I try to load the SRAM nothing happens.
When I make the save game state it takes pretty much 6 minutes to save.
I can get two symptoms for next save either it will start to save for 6 minutes again and after loaded save state I wont return to the last Save but to the very first or it it will make an really fast "Save" for like a second meaning you just press the button on the save game state and nothing starts to save I guess. There is just one anoying thing more; when I enter options in snesstation and want to quit it just freezes. Initially I thought that I could have some space problem so I cleaned out some old saves on the MC but that didn't help a bit. Just to mention I have both the European and the US version of the rom in the same folder. Does that have anything to do with the problem? By the way thanks!

[dlanor]

In the beginning I was kind of sarcastic.

I did notice that, but chose to ignore it. But for the future you should learn to curb your impatience.

Just because the right person, with the info you need, does not happen to log in and reply for some time after your question, does not mean that you are being ignored.

But now you gave really good replies but Northbear is right I did not present full stats.
I got v11 PS2 (it's rare and not a slime version)
Think it's speciall european version.

When specifying your PS2 type, always include the product code.
(Like SCPH-39004 for my european v7 PS2, or SCPH-77004 for my v15 PSTwo.)

I have the latest FMCB and 4.39uL

The preferred abbreviation is "uLE" rather than "uL".

Original Sony 8MB.
USB is and MAX drive. Got it with ARMAX
I have been testing with both the USB and hdd2 versions of the elf. Think it was similar result.

The emulator core of these is identical. It is just the ROM browser that has been hacked for different functionality. Unfortunately we have no source code to work with for this program.

Ok trying to see if I have gotten this right.
I first have to make an in game save to use SRAM if its possible to use SRAM?

That is what the SRAM was for, in an original SNES.
Saving progress of a game to battery-backed static RAM, for future reloading.
The difference with an emulator is only that it can save this SRAM to separate files.

I think I get that Save game state saves everything.

That is the purpose.

So it's like this I have tested SRAM and it starts to save I guess and it takes about a minute to save.

A full minute seems a bit long, especially for an 8MB MC. But OK I guess...

When I try to load the SRAM nothing happens.

That's perfectly normal, since the SRAM is not normally 'interactive' with a SNES game. But if you play an RPG, for example, and go to a savepoint where you can do in-game saving or loading, then you will notice that the visible saves (in the in-game save menu) will depend on what SRAM file you loaded. But this also assumes that you are moving the SRAM files externally between attempts (like with uLE FileBrowser), since the filename used will always be the same for a given ROM. So you can not switch between two different SRAM files for the same ROM in a single emulation session.

Also, if the emulator finds a matching SRAM file when starting a ROM, then that SRAM file will be loaded automatically, so normally you never need to use the explicit load command for it. (Unless you had the wrong MC in, and swapped that for the right one in mid-session.)

When I make the save game state it takes pretty much 6 minutes to save.

Again, that sounds much to long for normalcy.
Did you really time this, or is it just how long it 'felt' to you ?

I can get two symptoms for next save either it will start to save for 6 minutes again and after loaded save state I wont return to the last Save but to the very first or it it will make an really fast "Save" for like a second meaning you just press the button on the save game state and nothing starts to save I guess.

The latter is the bug I told you about, where the save command returns instantaneously, and you are correct in assuming that nothing was saved then. And once that bug has struck it will remain active for the remainder of the session. You must reset the console to get rid of it, meaning that the current in-game progress is doomed to be lost. (A good reason to save often, so as to minimize possible losses.)

The former problem, where saving time is the same as when it worked, and it still doesn't seem to update the save file, that is a brand new problem to me. I never heard of it nor experienced it myself.

There is just one anoying thing more; when I enter options in snesstation and want to quit it just freezes. Initially I thought that I could have some space problem so I cleaned out some old saves on the MC but that didn't help a bit.

Again, that is something I've never seen or heard of, so I can say nothing conclusive about it. Are you sure that this is a permanent freeze, and not just your impatience with the file-write delay causing you to believe it froze ?

Exit from the option menu always means that the program must resave its settings file on MC, and if your reports on timing are correct for other such operations above, your MC seems unusually slow. (Very unusual for Sony original MCs.) So you might have mistaken the temporary 'freeze' in menu response for a real freeze-up, and reset the console just before that 'freeze' would have ended with the emulator going back to the ROM browser (like it always does for me).

Just to mention I have both the European and the US version of the rom in the same folder.

Eh ? What ROM ? You didn't mention any specific ROM before.

I have lots of ROM files in some of my ROM folders, including duplicate versions of some games (differing in regions, release versions, patches etc). That is not a problem as long as each ROM file has a distinct name.

Does that have anything to do with the problem?

It might, but I can't see exactly how.

One problem I already mentioned is if similar ROMs have similar names, differing only in characters beyond the first 27. That will cause problems as different ROM files will then be using the same SRAM and saved state files, and the data in those files will probably be compatible only to the ROM file used when making the save. Launching another similar-named ROM may cause unknown in-game bugs due to incompatible SRAM, and loading a saved state file may then even crash the emulator as the emulator variables loaded may not fit the current ROM.

Other potential problems are of course that some ROM files may be faulty, or just happen to be incompatible to this emulator. (No emulator supports all existing SNES 'mappers' perfectly.)

By the way thanks!

Helping each other is all that these forums exist for, though it may occasionally take some time to 'connect'. (One of many reasons why we should always try to be patient with each other.)

Best regards: dlanor

[Asterix]

Thanks dlanor you're a good person=)
I will check the exakt PS2 version if this would be an issue. I did some more testing. I took the DonkeyKongCountry3 rom and placed it by it self on the MAX drive. Just to specify; what I understand it's a perfect dump of the european DKC3.
I tried again to make the save game state twice and this time it worked.
But I really did time the save time and it really takes 6 min, both saves took that time. When I look in the snes Mc manager the save game state file is 100KB. I also tried the SRAM save but that doesn't function at all.
Maybe if I did something wrong... I go to the save point and save after that I R1+L1 and SRAM save it. It takes less than a minute to complete. When I restart the game there is nothing preloaded. Even if I try to load the SRAM nothing happens. When I look in the snes MC manager the SRAM save is there but it says 0KB. About the exit options freeze. I press the exit button and you can't do anything else. I did suspect that it could be what you said dlanor so I left it for like 8 minutes but only the background music plays. It would be awesome if the next revision would have a loading bar so you could se how loads or saves things.

[dlanor]

Thanks dlanor you're a good person=)
I will check the exakt PS2 version if this would be an issue. I did some more testing. I took the DonkeyKongCountry3 rom and placed it by it self on the MAX drive. Just to specify; what I understand it's a perfect dump of the european DKC3.
I tried again to make the save game state twice and this time it worked.
But I really did time the save time and it really takes 6 min, both saves took that time.

That is rather odd, as an original Sony MC should be faster than that. I get shorter savestate delays myself even with my (very slow) 64MB MC.

When I look in the snes Mc manager the save game state file is 100KB.

That's a perfectly normal size, as I mentioned earlier.

I also tried the SRAM save but that doesn't function at all.

Are you sure of this ?
Have you used the uLE FileBrowser to inspect the contents of "mc0:/SNES_EMU/", in order to verify whether an "xxx.SRM" file was created that matches your rom filename.

I know from the following part that you checked it in the tools of the emu, but you really should check it in uLE as well. Partly to doublecheck and partly to check the free space remaining as well. (Some filesystem errors can cause space loss !!!) Also, the MC manager of the emu doesn't show the precise filename (trailing spaces in prefixes are invisible), so that is another reason to check it in uLE.

Maybe if I did something wrong... I go to the save point and save after that I R1+L1 and SRAM save it. It takes less than a minute to complete.

This seems perfectly normal, as long as you do get some delay for the saving. But it shouldn't take very long as such files are always just 8KB.

When I restart the game there is nothing preloaded.

I see two possible reasons for that, which are not really the emu's fault. One is that the rom itself may use some incompatible SRAM methods (doubtful), and the other is that the name of the rom file itself somehow prevents proper handling of the SRAM file.

Like I mentioned before, the name used will be truncated to 27 prefix characters, and those must be unique for that rom file. It is also possible that some special characters in the filename may be 'disliked' by the file handling routines. PC and PS2 standards differ in this...

Since I've never used that game, I'm not sure exactly how its gamesaves do work, but one game I've used a lot with perfect gamesave results is the US version of "Chrono Trigger", so you might want to try that (or any other of the Squaresoft RPGs).

Even if I try to load the SRAM nothing happens. When I look in the snes MC manager the SRAM save is there but it says 0KB.

A 0KB save would indicate some filesystem error that aborted the storage somehow. An attempt to use an invalid filename can sometimes have the effect that the file is created, but with a slightly different name, so access attempts using the wanted name (still invalid) will always fail. Thus nothing really gets saved or reloaded. Another possibility is of course that the MC happened to get full... But I assume you checked that.

Some rom collections use VERY odd naming conventions, so that is what I would check first of all, renaming the file to some super-safe form just for testing, such as that "DKC3" abbreviation you used above.

About the exit options freeze. I press the exit button and you can't do anything else. I did suspect that it could be what you said dlanor so I left it for like 8 minutes but only the background music plays.

That's weird. For me there is just a 15 second delay (with music playing of course), and then I get back to the rom browser.

It would be awesome if the next revision would have a loading bar so you could se how loads or saves things.

Next revision ? Sorry, but we don't expect that to happen.
SNES-Station is abandonware, except for the efforts of some who have hacked the binaries.

And since no active homebrewer has access to the source code it is impossible for us to produce a 'next revision' by proper methods. All we can do is to disassemble and hack the existing binaries for the most crucial improvements.

Best regards: dlanor

[Asterix]

Again dlanor great thanks.
After reading your reply I started to suspect the long name I had on the ROM.
Here it is exactly; Donkey kong Country 3 - Dixie Kong's Double trouble (E) [!]
If I'm counting right thats 59 characters including spaces. I copied it and changed it to like you said DKC3 and I retried my testing. I made one Save game state and is took again 6 minutes. Just to mention the savings are made to the MC card that contains the FMCB. Don't know if I should try to swap the 2 MC cards I have ( they are identical) when it's time to save.Is it safe to do that? Anyway so I tried to do the SRAM save and it worked. This time instead of "saving" for a minutes like I said before it saved in between 2.5-3 minutes. Like you said the game doesn't understand ingame loading of the SRAM but when I relaunched the game it started with the game I saved in SRAM. So that is really positive. Conclusion of this is that the name was the bad nut in all this. Just that the exit options bug is still there. One more question; is SRAM also a subject to the Save bug? So that you can't save the game some times that the game session is doomed?

[dlanor]

Again dlanor great thanks.
After reading your reply I started to suspect the long name I had on the ROM.
Here it is exactly; Donkey kong Country 3 - Dixie Kong's Double trouble (E) [!]
If I'm counting right thats 59 characters including spaces. I copied it and changed it to like you said DKC3 and I retried my testing. I made one Save game state and is took again 6 minutes. Just to mention the savings are made to the MC card that contains the FMCB. Don't know if I should try to swap the 2 MC cards I have ( they are identical) when it's time to save.Is it safe to do that? Anyway so I tried to do the SRAM save and it worked. This time instead of "saving" for a minutes like I said before it saved in between 2.5-3 minutes. Like you said the game doesn't understand ingame loading of the SRAM but when I relaunched the game it started with the game I saved in SRAM. So that is really positive. Conclusion of this is that the name was the bad nut in all this.

Those big rom collections often use names of that kind, and they inevitably cause some trouble on filesystems incapable of using long names such as a PS2 MC.

Such names have to be abbreviated automatically for the physical file access of saves, and any tiniest difference in how that is done may cause the 'Load' access name to differ from the 'Save' access name, making it impossible to use the saves properly. This is best avoided like you did now, by manually renaming the files to some more appropriate name length. I recommend never exceeding 31 characters, including the extension and its separator period char.

Just that the exit options bug is still there.

Weird, as I don't see that. But perhaps we are using slightly different versions.

One more question; is SRAM also a subject to the Save bug? So that you can't save the game some times that the game session is doomed?

Yes, that is how I first noticed it, as I seldom use save states.
All proper RPGs do support SRAM saving, so that is what I normally use.

Best regards: dlanor