Request for multiple game list entries per game (for VMC choice)

[dlanor]

Today I started experimenting with "RPG Maker 3" for which I have also downloaded a ton of user-created games from one of the sites specializing in these RPG engines. And after creating suitable VMC files for some of these games it struck me that there is NO convenient way of handling these in OPL.

Each time I want to switch from one VMC set to another I have to manually edit the VMC file name in the per-game options screen for that game entry, and then either use "Test" thus losing the new entry I just made for future use, or use "Save Changes" and lose the old entry for any future use. So I'll have to keep doing this every time...

For the time being I solved this by making VMC filenames that only differ from each other in some of the final characters, so it won't be too much work to re-edit them for each gameplay, but it is still quite irritating having to do it at all. And that would not even be helped if we had better selection tools. Even if we had a real SMB file browser that would still not alter the fact that I would have to make new settings each time I want to switch VMC. (No 'set it and forget it' here...)

Functionally each of these VMC files constitutes a separate game, so I would really want a separate entry in the game list for each choice of VMC files to be used by the RPGM3 disc.

And after considering this problem for a while I realized that there is another problem which is closely related to it and far more common, as it can apply to any normal PS2 game at all. This is simply the problem of multiple users of the same console and game collection, but needing separate VMC for separate gaming. This problem should be familiar to anyone coming from a large family (though even a single sibling can make the problem acute).

For this problem too, the only really good solution would be to have multiple game list entries for each game shared by more than one player (or even cases where one player has different ongoing 'campaigns' for a game).


Implementing such multiple entries could be done partly by slight variations to the existing configuration variables for VMC use, and partly by how these variables must then be used also by the code that constructs the combined game list for each core.

Currently such game lists are built by combining entries for games found in three places. Those being the USBA-style installed games plus ISO files in the "CD" and "DVD" subfolders, with each found game generating a single list entry.

But I suggest that for each game found this way for a given core, a check should also be made to see if the config file included a user request for extra VMC entries for that game in that core, in the form of some new config variable constructed in a similar way as the current VMC variables, so that it would start with something like "SCES_504.90_ETH", but instead of following that with a suffix for VMC slot we would use a new suffix, like "_Entries", so that the entire variable definition might look something like this:

SCES_504.90_ETH_Entries=3

This for the case where I want this particular game "FFX (UK)" to have three separate game list entries for the same game image, instead of just one as would be used if no such variable was found.

To separate the VMC definitions it would of course be necessary to use an index for each list entry of a game relative to its first one, and in this indexing the first one should be index 0, with the others following in order. So for the case of three entries the top index would be 2.

These index values would then be added as extra infix strings inside the variable names, except for index zero, which could be suppressed so as to use exactly the same VMC variable names as if no extra entries existed. So for the example above, all the possible variable names for these entries could then be something like this:

SCES_504.90_ETH_Entries=3
SCES_504.90_ETH_VMC0=Ronald_main_vmc0.bin
SCES_504.90_ETH_VMC1=Ronald_main_vmc1.bin
SCES_504.90_ETH_1_VMC0=Ronald_cheat_test_vmc0.bin
SCES_504.90_ETH_1_VMC1=Ronald_cheat_test_vmc1.bin
SCES_504.90_ETH_2_VMC0=Peter_vmc0.bin
SCES_504.90_ETH_2_VMC1=Peter_vmc1.bin

Note however that the code which generates the game listings only needs to bother with the first of those 7 variables, as it is the '_Entries' variable that defines how many extra entries are needed, and which index value each of them has relative to the base entry (possibly a new struct member may be needed for this).

That relative index value (here 0, 1 or 2) needs to be passed to the per-game options handler and also to the game launch handler in order to ensure that the correct VMC entries are chosen both in editing a setup and in using it for launches.

As an additional fluorish it would also be quite simple to add separate names for these entries, so that they don't all look identical, using a new config entry in the per-game menus relating to new config variables defined something like this: (for the example above)

SCES_504.90_ETH_Title=FFX (UK) Ronald's main game
SCES_504.90_ETH_1_Title=FFX (UK) Ronald's cheat tests
SCES_504.90_ETH_2_Title=FFX (UK) Peter's game

For these '_Title' variables the default entry (created by a new "Set Default" command) should be the normal title string as currently derived, but with the index number added to keep them unique. This effectively allows the user to rename the list titles for all games, even if no multiple entries are used, but the normal usage should be to just leave these '_Title' variables undefined when not needed, just like we do with unused "_VMC?" variables.

With this title usage there will of course be some added complexity for the game list construction, but well worth it in my opinion.

Best regards: dlanor

[RandQalan]

It would be nice also to have ability to brows the VMC files and choose what memory card is in use.

Just my 2 cents.

[dlanor]

It would be nice also to have ability to brows the VMC files and choose what memory card is in use.

I agree that it would be nice, but it would demand designing a brand new browser from scratch, with ability to handle all core devices, which is no little job.

But more importantly, the existence or absence of such a browser has no bearing at all on the topic of this thread.

With or without a better way to choose VMC filenames, it will always remain a great inconvenience having to do such editing (by browser or not) every time we want to run a game with different VMC files. Which will happen constantly for RPGM3 or RPGM2, for anyone who uses more than one of the MC-based games they are intended to use.

And for anyone sharing a console and games with other users (siblings, roomies, whatever) it will also be a recurring PITA, having to constantly switch the VMC settings for each user of a game.

So even if we had a perfect browser today, we would still need the kind of multiple game entries that this thread proposes.

Best regards: dlanor

[RandQalan]

I agree that it would be nice, but it would demand designing a brand new browser from scratch, with ability to handle all core devices, which is no little job.

But more importantly, the existence or absence of such a browser has no bearing at all on the topic of this thread.

With or without a better way to choose VMC filenames, it will always remain a great inconvenience having to do such editing (by browser or not) every time we want to run a game with different VMC files. Which will happen constantly for RPGM3 or RPGM2, for anyone who uses more than one of the MC-based games they are intended to use.

And for anyone sharing a console and games with other users (siblings, roomies, whatever) it will also be a recurring PITA, having to constantly switch the VMC settings for each user of a game.

So even if we had a perfect browser today, we would still need the kind of multiple game entries that this thread proposes.

Best regards: dlanor

Well maybe PITA but maybe when pressing a certain key while on VMC settings go to game browser but has listings of VMC then kicks back to settings with chosen VMC.

[dlanor]

Well maybe PITA but maybe when pressing a certain key while on VMC settings go to game browser but has listings of VMC then kicks back to settings with chosen VMC.

In what way is that better than just stepping to the entry you want in a game list and launch it without any extra work ?

Configuration of VMC settings for games should not be something you have to repeat, unless new needs arise. You should be able to make the full setup once only, and then use it unchanged long term, except for games (or gamers) added.

That is what my proposal would allow, since you can then have a separate game list entry for every combination of game image and VMC set. And for this no new browser is really needed. It would be nice to have, but not necessary, since lack of that convenience would matter less for settings you only have to make once.

Best regards: dlanor

[RandQalan]

In what way is that better than just stepping to the entry you want in a game list and launch it without any extra work ?

Configuration of VMC settings for games should not be something you have to repeat, unless new needs arise. You should be able to make the full setup once only, and then use it unchanged long term, except for games (or gamers) added.

That is what my proposal would allow, since you can then have a separate game list entry for every combination of game image and VMC set. And for this no new browser is really needed. It would be nice to have, but not necessary, since lack of that convenience would matter less for settings you only have to make once.

Best regards: dlanor

But you wouldn't need to input a name on opl at all with game browsing it would enter it automatically upon choice and i like your idea of 3 VMC or more per game just an Idea.

[dlanor]

But you wouldn't need to input a name on opl at all with game browsing it would enter it automatically upon choice

I think you are still missing my main point.

You just want to replace manual gamepad entry of letters into a string, by manual gamepad entry to navigate the browser and choose a VMC that way.

But this still means that every time you and a sibling (for example) alternate using the same game with VMC, each of you will have to enter the compatibility settings menu and again move the cursor to the VMC entries, then invoke the browser and perform the VMC choice. And this may have to be repeated twice for a double VMC set, and after that you have to save settings yet again. And all of that work is what you need to do after selecting the game in the game list.

With my method the corresponding work after selecting the game in the game list is considerably simpler. Because all you then need to do is to press the Cross button, and then the game will start, with your individual VMC.

Initial VMC configuration will always have to be done anyway, but with my method that is a job done once per game list entry, then never needing to be repeated for that entry again.

Best regards: dlanor

[RandQalan]

I think you are still missing my main point.

You just want to replace manual gamepad entry of letters into a string, by manual gamepad entry to navigate the browser and choose a VMC that way.

But this still means that every time you and a sibling (for example) alternate using the same game with VMC, each of you will have to enter the compatibility settings menu and again move the cursor to the VMC entries, then invoke the browser and perform the VMC choice. And this may have to be repeated twice for a double VMC set, and after that you have to save settings yet again. And all of that work is what you need to do after selecting the game in the game list.

With my method the corresponding work, after selecting the game in the game list is considerably simpler. Because all you then need to do is to press the Cross button, and then the game will start, with your individual VMC.

Initial VMC configuration will always have to be done anyway, but with my method that is a job done once per game list entry, then never needing to be repeated for that entry again.

Best regards: dlanor

Very true and I like your Idea
But for common person For public release the VMC browsing would be
an easy way and mix your Idea with it to select throw browser multiple cards
would make it great.