Open PS2 Loader v0.7 - Themes & Icons

[dlanor]

holding the down button is the same in any list ive ever used as far as speed to go from the top all the way to the last entry.

Programs with comprehensive lists normally do not have just a button to step one item down, but also additional buttons to switch pages, similar to the "Page Up" and "Page Down" keys of a normal keyboard. This could reduce the stepping needs by a factor of over 25 (assuming a reasonable font size giving 25 entries per page) in searching for the right page holding the game you want.

So where the single-step method gives max and average button press counts of 99 and 49.5 for finding the correct game out of 100, the page-step method gives similar counts of 3 and 1.5 respectively. To me this closes the case on convenience comparisons.

Even uLE has similar scroll commands, though they've been optimized to move the cursor just half a page forward or backwards (D-Pad buttons [Right] and [Left] in FileBrowser and other uLE subprograms). Some page-step feature is a generic solution for list access of all kinds on all computers.

There are many people who like the single entry style listing and you can see from the results of comments and excitment this is a preferable way to a large number of people to view a menu.

That may well be true, but for menus and lists with large numbers of entries that preference can only be because they have no other way to do it. Because I do not believe that any sensible person can prefer to press a button 99 times instead of 3... or even holding a button down continuously while frantically scanning the step-by-step presentation to check 99 name entries so as not to miss the correct one...

If we were to make this just like USB Advance's Game listing, it just wouldnt be the same to most of us who are anticipating using this app in our PS3 consoles.

I really don't see why pressing buttons hundreds of times would be any more enjoyable with a PS3 gamepad than with the one for a PS2. But whatever the case may be, there is no reason why we can't have both interfaces in the same program, selected by some simple config option.

I believe it would be good if Open USB-Loader has an option, which can be switched by CNF, to use the "new skin/style" and switch back to the normal listing-method.

That is my opinion as well.

I think the "jumping to next page" could also be implemented to the XMB-GUI in some way (be it pressing the shoulder-buttons, or something...), but it has one major-disadvantage.
You won´t see, which games you have skipped, if they are not atleast ordered in some way (alphabetical for example).

In my opinion having an ordered game list is a mandatory feature for convenient access to the games, though the ordering does not necessarily have to be done by the GUI itself. It can just as well be done by a game installer, and the one called 'USBUtil' does have such a sorting feature. So this does not need to affect the complexity of the GUI.

With alphabetical sorting it should be quite easy to step through a game list in a paged fashion even if only one entry from each 'page' is displayed.

I just consider it unnatural to handicap the user in that way, by refusing to show other games in the vicinity of the one displayed. That refusal serves no purpose in my opinion. I can not understand why some people find a single-entry presentation more esthetically pleasing, because to me it is not.

Well, the XMB was thought for multi-page-scrolling so... Multiple pages, for different sub-categories, where you have listed your content.
One page for videos, one for fotos, one for audio-files, one for games, one for internet-stuff and so on.
It makes the user-handling for multi-task, where you can pause a task and "jump back in" (like stopping audio-playback and jump to the last played frame after doing some other work in the XMB...) easier,

That 'ease' has nothing to do with the single-item list presentation method.
It is a completely independent characteristic, also achievable by other means.

but if it is optimal for our homebrew-usage,...

Hardly, and as for real 'multi-tasking', just forget about it. A PS2 doesn't have such an OS (and PS2 Linux does not count, as it can't coexist with PS2 game launching)

But there are a few. which want this moving and interacting Menus, rather than a static list,

I'm all for freedom of choice, but that is exactly what we lack at the movement.
Right now the program offers only a single-entry presentation method, which as I see it prevents convenient use of the program.

If you see source code, you can see that loader is independent of inteface. So, anyone can create an alternative interface without affecting the compatibility of new versions and upgrades.

This is true, but as long as the GUI and the loader kernel are integrated as one unit, making an independent alternate interface will create another project branch (two really, one each for the two kernel variants), which may not be a good idea at this stage of development.

Best regards: dlanor

[JNABK]

lolz...i didnt know this would turn into a ' technical debate' on whats the better way to view a game list. A full page menu would win hands down of course.

I already agreed it was more convienient to use a full page list, but i thought i was answering the question : "But I don't see why everyone seems to be so happy about a listing method capable of showing only one single game choice per screen. What is the point of that limitation ?" It was simple enough to me.....its a 'style' and its not important to a lot of people if they do press 100 times on a button or it takes a little longer to find a game. That seemed to me as an answer to why people are so happy about it. As i said before...for me personally, it doesnt take me any longer to find my game in a list, whether it be a single entry or a full page, i scroll the same way in each, i hold down the button til im close to where it should be in the list. I often pass by the game even in a full menu, cause they scroll so fast.

I press tons of buttons for combos when im playing a game anyway, so a few more in a menu doesnt bother me at all and im sure a lot of people dont even give it a second thought.

But i'd be happy with a 'menu switch" option that allows both, that the user could choose.....that would just mean more designs i could make for them.

[jerrymh]

Programs with comprehensive lists normally do not have just a button to step one item down, but also additional buttons to switch pages, similar to the "Page Up" and "Page Down" keys of a normal keyboard. This could reduce the stepping needs by a factor of over 25 (assuming a reasonable font size giving 25 entries per page) in searching for the right page holding the game you want.

So where the single-step method gives max and average button press counts of 99 and 49.5 for finding the correct game out of 100, the page-step method gives similar counts of 3 and 1.5 respectively. To me this closes the case on convenience comparisons.

Even uLE has similar scroll commands, though they've been optimized to move the cursor just half a page forward or backwards (D-Pad buttons [Right] and [Left] in FileBrowser and other uLE subprograms). Some page-step feature is a generic solution for list access of all kinds on all computers.

That may well be true, but for menus and lists with large numbers of entries that preference can only be because they have no other way to do it. Because I do not believe that any sensible person can prefer to press a button 99 times instead of 3... or even holding a button down continuously while frantically scanning the step-by-step presentation to check 99 name entries so as not to miss the correct one...

I really don't see why pressing buttons hundreds of times would be any more enjoyable with a PS3 gamepad than with the one for a PS2. But whatever the case may be, there is no reason why we can't have both interfaces in the same program, selected by some simple config option.


That is my opinion as well.

In my opinion having an ordered game list is a mandatory feature for convenient access to the games, though the ordering does not necessarily have to be done by the GUI itself. It can just as well be done by a game installer, and the one called 'USBUtil' does have such a sorting feature. So this does not need to affect the complexity of the GUI.

With alphabetical sorting it should be quite easy to step through a game list in a paged fashion even if only one entry from each 'page' is displayed.

I just consider it unnatural to handicap the user in that way, by refusing to show other games in the vicinity of the one displayed. That refusal serves no purpose in my opinion. I can not understand why some people find a single-entry presentation more esthetically pleasing, because to me it is not.

That 'ease' has nothing to do with the single-item list presentation method.
It is a completely independent characteristic, also achievable by other means.

Hardly, and as for real 'multi-tasking', just forget about it. A PS2 doesn't have such an OS (and PS2 Linux does not count, as it can't coexist with PS2 game launching)

I'm all for freedom of choice, but that is exactly what we lack at the movement.
Right now the program offers only a single-entry presentation method, which as I see it prevents convenient use of the program.

This is true, but as long as the GUI and the loader kernel are integrated as one unit, making an independent alternate interface will create another project branch (two really, one each for the two kernel variants), which may not be a good idea at this stage of development.

Best regards: dlanor

Ok,ok, then make one menu yourself and show us what is good, personaly I like this aplication, if your do not like it, then do not use it. Is not your time neither your program skill aplications, people do things because they want and they like it.

For the authors of the skins and Ifcaro, keep up the good work.

[ffgriever]

Ok,ok, then make one menu yourself and show us what is good, personaly I like this aplication, if your do not like it, then do not use it. Is not your time neither your program skill aplications, people do things because they want and they like it.

For the authors of the skins and Ifcaro, keep up the good work.

Now, I can understand the emotions, but the "not your program(ing) skill" (if it isn't just misunderstanding) seems a little bit rude. Dlanor has been coding for more time than you most likely live .

[JNABK]

Yes, please respect the discussions, its not an arguement. Both our points of view are valid and its how some development takes its turn in formulating ideas. I value dlanor's input at any time.....even if we sometimes misunderstand each other's meanings.

[dlanor]

Ok,ok, then make one menu yourself and show us what is good,

For reasons already stated I do not think this is the right time to create additional 'branches' of the USBLoader project. It is better if the list method I suggested is incorporated as an alternate menu option in the main GUI.

As for examples of how I'd code a list selection menu, have a look at the various menus and FileBrowser lists of uLE, for which I have handled much of the coding (though not all). They may not be as 'pretty' as some people want, but they get the job done and usually with minimum effort on the part of the user, as compared to other tools with similar intent.

Naturally I agree with your well-wishes for the authors both of the main USBLoader components and the skins and themes to be used with them. But I still think the project would gain from a more comprehensive game selection list, as an alternate menu method.

Best regards: dlanor

[TnA]

That is my opinion as well.

In my opinion having an ordered game list is a mandatory feature for convenient access to the games, though the ordering does not necessarily have to be done by the GUI itself. It can just as well be done by a game installer, and the one called 'USBUtil' does have such a sorting feature. So this does not need to affect the complexity of the GUI.

Agreed.
If there is a sorting-feature (at least alphabetical), it "won´t hurt" but like you said it is not necessary since the sorting is done quickly on a PC (still a nice to have thought...).

With alphabetical sorting it should be quite easy to step through a game list in a paged fashion even if only one entry from each 'page' is displayed.

Yeah, an alphabetical sorting would be good for the GUI thought (but with on/off-switch, if some people sorted the list like they want, because they play some games more often...).

I just consider it unnatural to handicap the user in that way, by refusing to show other games in the vicinity of the one displayed. That refusal serves no purpose in my opinion. I can not understand why some people find a single-entry presentation more esthetically pleasing, because to me it is not.

Maybe they want to joke their mates and say, "Did you saw my PS3 in a PS2-Slim-Case?". lol
I don´t know. They want to have some nice moving stuff on screen and see what the PS2 can do (for them, without doing something... even if it is just a moving picture) and especially, what they can do with it (manual skinning, making a pink GUI for a pink PS2slim for girlfriend, or... It´s like looking a movie, but interacting with it. It´s like they are already in the game with the moving stuff, lol.).

Giving the user the ability to change the moving stuff on screen is an amazing entertainment for the 3D-Generation (I can understand it, since the videos shown on PSP and PS3 while you wait a bit on an icon gives you a sneak-preview to the game and it is amazing for most to see, what they can do with their old hardware... I think you know what I mean. + some might love the similarity to the other newer Sony XMB-GUIs...).

Their is one more "static" GUI, which has a bit other user-handling but is still nice.
The FMCB 1.8-Installer-GUI.
All buttons and gfx could be switched and one "Tab" could represent one "Device", where a game is installed.
...and every tab then has a list of the games installed to a device.
If one Tab is Selected (like in the FMCB-GUI with X for example, but could be configureable also or just another button) you can browse through the list, like in HDL or USBA.
To "release" the Tab (jumping back to the "Tab-Bar"), for example TRIANGLE could be pressed.

Sadly this source is closed (but Jimmi said, it is open for some projects, talented developers and he himself is even active in this project...).
I just don´t know yet about the libs and if they are different, or if it would bloat the app much.
But it is a game-loader, which loads USB-Games (or from other devices maybe later) so why not loading it from USB (or...)?

Hardly, and as for real 'multi-tasking', just forget about it.

The sentence you quoted was more meant like a question.
I don´t know if it would be any "better" for homebrew-project or this project here and I also didn´t meant that.
I it would be cool, to choose between a "moving GUI-System" and a "static GUI-System" and if both would be skin-able that would be very cool of course and gives a high freedom.

A PS2 doesn't have such an OS (and PS2 Linux does not count, as it can't coexist with PS2 game launching)

It can coexist with HDL-Partitions and the "normal"/commonly used partitioning (don´t know about Sony's Linux, if you meant that), it is just a hastle to transfer the Linux-Partition and put it back to HD, after it is reformated with all stuff.

This is true, but as long as the GUI and the loader kernel are integrated as one unit, making an independent alternate interface will create another project branch (two really, one each for the two kernel variants), which may not be a good idea at this stage of development.

Best regards: dlanor

Yeah,... No multiple loaders, like in the wii-szene... Sorry that, but hey...
All report this homebrew as for "the PS3" and in fact it is a PS2-Homebrew (even thought, it offers compatibility to the BC PS3s).
The PS2-Scene didn´t ever got the real attention it deserves, since it is the most spreaded console this sector still has a huge potential (and I still think, the ps2-scene was one of the pioneers which spreaded homebrew more into the mainstream [because the history of modding on Sony-Consoles like the PS1-Modding-Scene also...], so homebrew itself spreads more than 5years before, I think...).
And I don´t even know how many different USB-Loader and game-loader-versions, with different User-GUIs are out there for the WII, instead that more people put their efforts into one programm, but create a nice skinning-system...


Edit: Tried to fix some typos, but it´s late.
Hope I didn´t messed up my post completely.

[jerrymh]

For reasons already stated I do not think this is the right time to create additional 'branches' of the USBLoader project. It is better if the list method I suggested is incorporated as an alternate menu option in the main GUI.

As for examples of how I'd code a list selection menu, have a look at the various menus and FileBrowser lists of uLE, for which I have handled much of the coding (though not all). They may not be as 'pretty' as some people want, but they get the job done and usually with minimum effort on the part of the user, as compared to other tools with similar intent.

Naturally I agree with your well-wishes for the authors both of the main USBLoader components and the skins and themes to be used with them. But I still think the project would gain from a more comprehensive game selection list, as an alternate menu method.

Best regards: dlanor

oK sorry for that (excuse my lapsus calamitus agains you), maybe the best thing will be help Ifcaro and Jimmy improving OpenUSBloader and then make a good loader for this awesome tool.

[JNABK]

I'll be adding all my skins to the first post, as i expect these posts will be buried, so they can all be found in the first post.

Updated for 0.5 and added to first post.

[JNABK]

Added to first post too.......


Hope ya likes it.

Updated and added to first post.