Summary about PS2 games on DVD+R DL problem

[Dave Kramer]

Hi, everyone.

A little summary about non working games burnt on DVD+R DL format.

In DVD Dual Layer industry, there are two modes of writing:

- Opposite Track Path (OTP)
A dual-layer DVD standard which defines layer 0 as being written in a spiral track starting at the inside of the disc, and layer 1 having a spiral track which starts at the outside of the disc. Both tracks are written so that the DVD player will rotate the disc in the same direction. This enables the DVD player to switch from one layer to another more quickly at the end of layer 0.
This is the case for DVD-Video.

- Parallel Track Path (PTP)
Dual-layer DVDs which have both layers recorded as clockwise spirals which start from the inside of the disc. Compare to Opposite Track Path.
This is the case for PS2 games.


The problem is that DVD+R DL format is only preformatted for OTP burning, not for PTP.
This is the reason why PS2 games on DVD+R DL not working because PS2 console is waiting for dual layer games in PTP format and detects a dual layer DVD in OTP format. Then the game freezes after PlayStation 2 logo.

The only solution is to break PTP detection protection when booting dual layer PS2 games.

So, one question remains for modchip coders:
Is it possible to implement this patch in modchip firmware?

[uns97]

Man, this is just half of the problem. As MANY DVD9 based games WORK on DVD+R DL disk. (Xenosaga, Metal Gear, Guy Game, and so on...) So what you say is just an idea about why GT4 does not work. Still not proven. But a thing that might be examined.

regards, Stephen

[Dave Kramer]

Eh. Wake up, man.

DVD9 backups on DVD+R DL don?t work; I?ve tried so many times with DVD Decrypter and all other burning softwares in their latest versions.

The results are here: no PTP burning, no PS2 backup on DVD+R DL.

That?s all.

[uns97]

Man, what you did is a thing. I know what I am talking about. DVD+R DL has almost nothing to do with your nonworking backups, as MANY confirmed working burnt DVD+R DL backups on several forums and they are trustable people belive me. Before post anything, do your homework and read some OTHER threads aswell. Also, I have been in the optical storage + computer bussines for more than a decade and I know what I am doing, belive me the GT4 has a protection, and it's not only a DVD+R DL problem. If your backups do not work, there might be something wrong with anything like, media quality, burner quality, ps2 laser conditions, modchip (not all can boot DVD9 media anyway) but PTP/OTP is not your problem especially not with the games I listed above.

regards, Stephen

[Dave Kramer]

I read many posts in many forums from guys who really tried to burn DVD9 backups on DVD+R DL. They all failed and the recurring problem is DVD+R DL can't be brunt in PTP format. All of their tests are similar to mine.

GT4 is specific case because this is DVD9 game and it has a new anti modchip protection.

I'm sorry if you're this kind of guy who believes in fairy tales...

[uns97]

Beliving in fairy trales? Go to some forums as I already suggested and READ yourself how many of the guys created a successfull Metal Gear Solid or Xenosaga or Guy Game backup on DVD+R DL. Don't get me wrong, but what do you know about optical storage/warez scene/and PS2 itself ? Or do you just speculate ? You probably read all things about GT4 but not about succesfull recording to DVD+R DL. Seems your only problem is GT4, comming to this site and wrote your own theory, which MAY be right regarding GT4, BUT please let me add some comments here about some OTHER DVD9 games, if you do not mind to read:

"Think so too...PS2 definitely runs DVD+DL, so the statement that PS2 never runs them is false...like said earlier in the thread xenosaga is DVD9 and runs fine. The guy who said the burn with Padus discjuggler worked ok did ya play a couple of races or not?.. Discjuggler brings back memories to my good old dreamcast...great burning proggie so."

"I burnt Xenosaga on DVD9 using imaging of dvddecrypter worked fine."

"Well, I already made a copy of Xenosaga USA version with Dvddecrypter, it's a DVD9 and the copy works fine and USA is non-original region for my PAL console. So I'm sure original imports would work as well. I dunno what the issue is with GT4, I don't think it's a general DVD9 issue or a regional issue"

These were just some I found quickly, from guys on the warez scene. Still have no clue, how did you come to the conclusion that PTP has anything to game bootability, as that might be a PROTECTION if that is checked, but actually it's just the way pressed DVD's are done. If you do not mind, tell me what game you tried to backup. (if you tried one at all...) Also what media + writer you used. (many used cheap ritek DVD+R DL disks and failed, but changed to Verbatim and guess what, the game booted. Also as said many times, many chip cannot boot DVD9 based games, plus if you have a weak laser chances are zero to boot any of the DL disks...) If you tried GT4 only, then gimme a break, we have dicussed that over and over.

regards, Stephen

[uns97]

Hi, everyone.

...The problem is that DVD+R DL format is only preformatted for OTP burning, not for PTP.
This is the reason why PS2 games on DVD+R DL not working because PS2 console is waiting for dual layer games in PTP format and detects a dual layer DVD in OTP format. Then the game freezes after PlayStation 2 logo.

The only solution is to break PTP detection protection when booting dual layer PS2 games.

So, one question remains for modchip coders:
Is it possible to implement this patch in modchip firmware?

And a quick note... GT4 does not stop and freeze at the PS2 logo... (if that freezes there, then it's a bad burn/weak laser syndrome...) It goes on, LOADS and freezes at the credits screen (just at the same place where it freezes when you run it from HDD...*so where is the PTP/OTP check then when there's no disk inside ???* It's a check LATER, but probably in the software, so games without such a check would run just fine...

stay cl, Stephen

[yahooadam]

anyway what hes saying would mean it works fine up to layer 1

cos it can still read layer 0 fine

How well do these games work ?

All the way through ?

[uns97]

That is exactly what I say. If a hardware based protection against OTP disks exists (sounds so as he is asking mod groups to implement such a function to remove this kind of protection...) how is that the game LOADS but freeze after the credit or so screen. (or do these hw based protections just check the disk later ???? Not probable...) He says all DVD9 based game *DVD+R DL to be precise* freeze at the PS2 logo. This is nonsense, or the ones in the other thread here all must be lying. The game (GT4) boots, the PS2 logo disappears (!!!) the game starts (!!!), but freezes. That might be of course because of the check of the OTP/PTP thing, but to get that conclusion that ALL DVD+R DL game will fail because of this is not ok. I may belive that Sony will use this kind of protection again and again in new releases, but there are games that work. Not all, not GT4 but there are a few that DO work. (to be honest, I do not know that many of DVD9 based games up till now, there is a thread somewhere we discussed about this anyway)

I personally have read that theory what he wrote on another forum. I do not wanna quote that here, but it is almost the same. I do not know that it was HIS theory, or he just quoted that from there, I do not care, BUT the ones I quoted are proven working backups on DVD+R DL. So to say NOTHING works on DL is far from the truth. The thing that GT4 does not work, is a >KNOWN FACT< and never was questioned. I did my best in the GT4 topic aswell regarding this subject. But that all DVD+R DL backups fail are misleading a bit. Anyway, if I look around many claims DVD-R backups do not work for them, though all work fine for others, so there are so many factors that we have to consider, that is why speaking in general is quite a dangerous game. He is right that GT4 does not work, we know that too, up till now there was none who could give us the correct answer why it does not work, probably because of the JAP release, but I wish there will be a solution sooner or later. It is probable that it is some kind of protection, the difference between HIS and MINE conclusion is that he thinks it is a HARDWARE protection and it applies to all games, while I think it is a software based protection and applies to GT4 only, plus he think it can be solved using a mod while I think it can be cracked and a patch will solve this all.

Time will tell who was right and who wasn't, it won't be the first time one was wrong, but what I read and what I KNOW personally (plus as said the time I spent with optical storage + hw) make me think the topic + his post was a bit misleading.

regards, Stephen

[uns97]

http://www.ps2newz.net/forums/showthread.php?t=29791

regards, Stephen