DVD-R DL problem dependent on console model (laser type?)

**dlanor** · 12-18-2008,05:30 PM

Today I burned my first Dual Layer disc, something I have long avoided due to the outrageous prices. But I decided to make that sacrifice for two such discs in order to backup the only RPGs I have for which I had no backup at all so far, those being "Xenosaga Ep1" and "Rogue Galaxy" (both un-backed-up because they require dual layer).

So I bought a couple of "Verbatim 4x DVD-R DL" with manufacturer ID "MKM 01RD30" which is apparently a good quality disc, from what I gathered by googling.

For my first test I then ripped the "Rogue Galaxy" iso from the original with DVD Decrypter (as I always do), then patched it first with Toxic DL patcher (a first for me) and then with the ESR patcher by ffgriever, after which I burned it to one of the discs mentioned above using ImgBurn.

My main purpose in wanting to make these backups was to allow me to play those games also on my v15 console, without wearing out the original discs, so my first test of the new-burned disc was to boot it on that unmodded v15, using FMCB+ESR.

To my great surprise this at first seemed to fail. The disc was recognized as being an ESR disc though, and ESR booted and went through the usual colour flashing, but the program did not seem to start like it should and the screen stayed black after the last colour flash.

In my very first test I gave up at that point, thinking that something had gone terribly wrong with the layer-break patching (as I'd never used that before), but I naturally went ahead with testing the disc on my modded v7 too, first with mod chip active (to see if my DMS4 could boot it, and then with modchip disabled booting FMCB and having it recognize the disc and launch ESR. (The very same operation that 'failed' on the v15.)

To my surprise both those very different tests on the v7 gave perfect results, booting the game with exactly the same speed and responses as when booting the original disc. So nothing was wrong with the ISO or the burn at all, as seen by DMS4 in the first v7 test and by FMCB+ESR in the second v7 test.

At this point I began to suspect that I had made some mistake in my earlier test on the v15, so now I repeated that test a few times, with variations (launching game from uLE with ESR preactivated and such tricks), but always with the same result. So I sat for a while thinking about the results of the last test, without turning off the console or TV, and after several minutes of sitting like that the console suddenly produced the normal startup screen of the game (where it asks what language you want to use).

So loading the program and data needed to display that screen, something my old and much used v7 managed to do in just a few seconds, took several minutes for a much newer, mint condition, v15 to perform.

And once I had 'exhausted' the data it had loaded for the first set of interactions I got another horribly long delay while it attempted to read some more from the disc.

The only sensible explanation for this is that the laser of my v15 is incapable of reading DVD-R DL discs reliably. It probably made several hundred retries for each sector, in order for it to take that long to display something so simple.

My theory is that the laser in my v15 (and thus probably in many slim consoles) simply can not be used reliably with a DVD-R DL disc, though the laser in my v7 (and thus probably in many fat consoles) has no problems at all with such a disc.

I'd appreciate it if others who have both a slim and a fat console (and some DVD-R DL disc, obviously) could repeat such comparative tests, so that we can get sufficient results for a valid conclusion (a single pair of tested consoles proves nothing).

Also, since my own failing console was an SCPH-77004 v15, I'd be very interested in DVD-R DL results from anyone with similar console models (mainly 750xx through 790xx), regardless of whether those tests involve ESR or modchip (as the laser is the same in either case).

Note that the results described above relate only to DVD-R DL discs, not to DVD+R DL discs, which I have not yet tried (don't have any at present). But results for such discs are also of interest. Just make sure to report exactly what disc type you used, preferably including manufaturer ID, as displayed by ImgBurn.

Btw:
It is ironic that the main goal for which I wanted to make DL backups now seems impossible to attain, since the console I wanted it for can't read that disc with sufficient reliability.

Best regards: dlanor

**ignite339** · 12-20-2008,02:21 AM

These are excellent finds dlanor. I find it odd that a v7 would run DLs better than a v15. Maybe it's something motherboard related? One thing I may have missed from the post is whether or not the original disc ran okay on your v15. That is valuable info.

Anyways, I have a v4 and a v12 (which may or may not still work, I'll have to dig it up) that I can test DVD9s on. The only game I have is God of War 2, but I'm sure that will give me sufficient results. I'm in the same boat as you, I've never wanted to burn DVD9s because of the stupid pricing on it, but I have a few extra bucks to throw around. I'll run some tests in the coming days.

**Sarcastic** · 12-20-2008,02:37 AM

...I find it odd that a v7 would run DLs better than a v15....

Doesn't surprise me at all. The V7s are said to be the best PS2 models that Sony has ever released, whereas the slim models are... well, crap in many respects in comparison to its big predecessors (especially V7).

I unfortunately only have got a V10 or 11 but I'm glad that I don't have to resort to that slim junk.

**ignite339** · 12-20-2008,02:50 AM

Originally Posted by Sarcastic

Doesn't surprise me at all. The V7s are said to be the best PS2 models that Sony has ever released, whereas the slim models are... well, crap in many respects in comparison to its big predecessors (especially V7).

I unfortunately only have got a V10 or 11 but I'm glad that I don't have to resort to that slim junk.

Yeah, true. My V12 (I've had 3 of them) have always had problems after about a month of light-to-medium use. The laser just can't hold up for some reason. I just never knew that the lasers had problems from the get-go, since dlanor said it's much newer.

**dlanor** · 12-20-2008,06:34 AM

Originally Posted by ignite339

These are excellent finds dlanor. I find it odd that a v7 would run DLs better than a v15. Maybe it's something motherboard related?

I don't think so, more likely the v15 has a cheaper laser lacking what it takes to read DL reliably (second worst case, right after RW DVDs). But that's just my suspicion as yet. To prove that theory we need more results from other console units than mine.

One thing I may have missed from the post is whether or not the original disc ran okay on your v15. That is valuable info.

Oh, I thought I did say so, but maybe I forgot. In any case, both my consoles boot the original pressed DVD-9 perfectly, without any noticeable extra delays compared to single-layer games.

Anyways, I have a v4 and a v12 (which may or may not still work, I'll have to dig it up) that I can test DVD9s on. The only game I have is God of War 2, but I'm sure that will give me sufficient results. I'm in the same boat as you, I've never wanted to burn DVD9s because of the stupid pricing on it, but I have a few extra bucks to throw around. I'll run some tests in the coming days.

Well, any test results are better than none. But the v12 and v15 probably don't use the same laser (not sure though), in which case their results might be unrelated.

@everyone:
So has anyone else tested burned dual-layer discs in consoles of similar models yet ?

I'm primarily interested in results for SCPH-750xx through SCPH-790xx with special emphasiz on my own model SCPH-770xx.

Btw: I seem to remember (vaguely) some earlier reports of failed DL backups on some slim consoles, but I can't recall if there were any reports of successfully using DL backups on such consoles.

Of course, people often feel that there's no need to report when everything works fine, but in this case such reports would be very important, especially for the v15 as that is the one that failed in my test.

Best regards: dlanor

**Lenneth183** · 12-26-2008,11:21 AM

Of course... I have a MGS2 Substance backup and it didn't work on my v12... I have to test it again and wait more... though I have to wait for my PS2 because I gave it to a friend for 1 week, untill this weekend...

**jetcat** · 12-26-2008,01:17 PM

I´ve always use DVD+DL Verbatim burned at 2.4x.
And they workes great in all my consolles.
Ps2 v9,v7,v15 and the newest SCPH 90000.

**dlanor** · 12-28-2008,11:06 PM

Originally Posted by jetcat

I´ve always use DVD+DL Verbatim burned at 2.4x.
And they workes great in all my consolles.
Ps2 v9,v7,v15 and the newest SCPH 90000.

That's good to know, since your list includes the same v15 model that failed for me.

So I'll try using DVD+R DL next time, instead of the DVD-R DL that failed for me (also Verbatim and burned like yours too)

Presumably there is some difference between the DVD+R DL and the DVD-R DL discs, that could make the latter harder to read. (?)

Best regards: dlanor

**TnA** · 12-29-2008,06:43 AM

Did you tried to set the layer-break/"sectors per layer" on your DVD-R DL manually (and probably also without the Toxic-Patch)?

I heard it more than once, that no toxic-patch + -R DL + forced layer-break should work.
I´ll try it with my GoW1/2 or GT4, when I have a -R DL again (and probably waste one DL ^^).

**dlanor** · 12-31-2008,07:48 AM

Originally Posted by TnA

Did you tried to set the layer-break/"sectors per layer" on your DVD-R DL manually (and probably also without the Toxic-Patch)?

I did not, and at the current price I will not try any more discs of this kind.
(I might reconsider if the prices plummet, but that is unlikely to happen.)

I heard it more than once, that no toxic-patch + -R DL + forced layer-break should work.

That may be, but what the heck should it then be set to ?
There are quite a few sectors to choose from, so just picking one at random would be insane.

In any case, the discs I burned are proven valid by the fact that they boot perfectly, without any abnormal retries or other delays, when using my v7 console. It is only on the v15 console that I have the access problems. And even there the failure was not total for one of the backups (as it would be with an invalid format), but only consisted of horrible retry delays causing a normal 5 second boot response to take 5 minutes or more.

To me this means that it must be the laser itself which is having problems reading the disc, regardless of the contents (which were proven valid on the v7 anyway).

I´ll try it with my GoW1/2 or GT4, when I have a -R DL again (and probably waste one DL ^^).

Well, rather you than me...

I've wasted enough money on that disc type, only to find that it doesn't work on the one console I needed it for...

Best regards: dlanor

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