Odd DMS3 problem on V4

Canuk · 12-25-2003,02:53 PM

I've just done a DMS3 install on a V4 that works fine and performs 100% of it's functions. The problem is that it works normally until the system comes up to temperature. After 15 minutes if you want to reboot it just goes to black screen. Turn it off for 2 minutes and it'll boot again. I've got a 1cm 18 gauge ground wire and twisted pairs on D and E. Last night I rules out any BIOS connections which leaves me to the SCEX, power or DVD controller points.

I'm not using the regular power point but rather the one next to the controller port and using the VIAs on the back of the board for DVD controller points. Point O is not run separately or with a twisted pair.

Any thoughts as to why the system coming up to operating temperaure is creating ground bounce?

**madisonmods** · 12-25-2003,04:08 PM

Is that by chance a V4R system (date code 1C)? I remember that same problem with the older chips (Magic, Apple) when those systems were first coming out... Could also be bad solder joint on a via, when the system heats up, the point is moving out of contact. Also, how did you mount the chip? I actually saw a system once with the exact same symptoms, turns out the chip was stuck to board with dual-sided tape, and the chip itself was actually lifting off the board when hot and touching the metal ground plate. Some stuff to check anyway...

Canuk · 12-26-2003,04:37 AM

It's a V4 35001. DC 1b

Yeah it's is in fact attached with 2 sided tape but I've shielded the plate above with electrical tape.

So I went back in and re-did the entire DVD controller side. Isolated (o) and ran it flat crossing no components. All to the underside via's. Fully rescraped the vias and fresh tinned the wires. Still the same thing happens. Everything works fine 100% system comes up to temperature and you've got to turn it off for a minute or 2 to boot anything.

I am wondering if it's a long wire issue because lets face it, it's aways to the vias but not quite as far away as the controller chip. I looked for a long time for a better spot to put this chip in a v4 but it's such a king size chip with such an odd pad placement, I dunno. If anyone could point me to a better method here that would be good.

The other thing I'm starting to notice here is I can actually boot DVDr/CDR through the DMS3 explorer into my browser when it goes to black screen from standby

**madisonmods** · 12-26-2003,10:11 AM

It could be a wire problem, but I doubt it. I install all of my DMS on the left side of the board (the blank spot, where Messiahs are recommended) and never had a problem. Some of the via wires are around 8 inches. You mentioned the ground wire being short and 18 ga, what about the power wire?
Do you have another DMS3 chip you could try in the system? It might not necessarily be a ground bounce problem but possbile (although not likely) something on the chip. You might be able to test this, try to disable the modchip and run an original for a while. See if it will boot after that...
Also, you've double checked and made sure your fan was working?

Canuk · 12-26-2003,12:30 PM

The power wire is 22 gauge and yeah the fan is fine. I just ran an original in it for about 15 minutes and same thing. Black screen from standby. I have more DMS3 here but I tell you if I have to pull this one out it won't be a DMS3 going back in.

**madisonmods** · 12-26-2003,01:24 PM

Well, I don't think it's the chip being as it did the same thing disabled. I know you said D and E were twisted pair, but did you run the other side of the pair to ground on both sides? Also, make sure they are as short as possible and not crossing each other... I also recommend gluing them down to the board and not crossing over the top of any components (ie. flat on the mainboard the whole way). I'm running out of ideas here...

Canuk · 12-26-2003,02:30 PM

Yeah, both my twisted pairs are grounded on each end to the edge of the board. All of the wires are run flat to the board and glued with as little cossing over as possible. I've gone back to the official power point rechecked and retouched anything that may have looked iffy. I've been all over it with a multimeter many times for bridging and continuity. Then I've worked it over with a 10x magnifing glass for a while.

**EnTiTy** · 12-26-2003,02:42 PM

id redo all the points sounds like a dry joint that's expanding away from the board when heat circulates.
EnTiTy

**madisonmods** · 12-26-2003,03:28 PM

Sounds like he's tried that, but if not he should. Canuck, if you didn't use flux on the original install, I would recommend that as well, you're pretty much guaranteed no cold joints with flux. Beyond that, I'm at a loss. Personally I would try another DMS3 chip (with the same wiring, just remove and reinstall point for point) and see if the trouble is still there...
Also--did you replace the heat transfer stuff from on top of the BA chip? If that's missing it may cause booting problems, but unlikely...

**EnTiTy** · 12-26-2003,03:33 PM

Originally posted by madisonmods
Sounds like he's tried that, but if not he should. Canuck, if you didn't use flux on the original install, I would recommend that as well, you're pretty much guaranteed no cold joints with flux. Beyond that, I'm at a loss. Personally I would try another DMS3 chip (with the same wiring, just remove and reinstall point for point) and see if the trouble is still there...
Also--did you replace the heat transfer stuff from on top of the BA chip? If that's missing it may cause booting problems, but unlikely...

i only had a quick look over the post.

flux if heated too long does turn into a plaque barrier and stops conduction imho i would go for a full reinstall.
EnTiTy

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