NTSC V7 + M2 + NTSC Psone games (50/60hz problem)...

[Alcahest]

Hey all, I need help with my newly acquired V7 NTSC PS2.
The problem is that with the Messiah2 1.30 installed, NTSC PSX games seem to run at 50hz! The image is shaky/flickering as PAL games do. (the color carrier seem to be correct though : NTSC, it seem to be only a frequency problem)
When the Messiah2 is removed, NTSC Psone games go back to playing in proper 60Hz. So the problem lies within the Messiah2 I think.
This problem only concerns PSOne games. PS2 games play perfect (true 60Hz display for NTSC games, etc..)
What I would like to do is just have my PS2 to play PSone games like before the M2 was installed, ie in "true 60hz".
The color fix is NOT installed. I'm using a RGB scart cable and my TV is tristandard.
I searched on the forum and found this thread where Charlie advises to put a switch on the V point to correct this problem.
http://www.ps2newz.net/forums/showth...threadid=14086
Are there no other solutions that came up recently?
Also, does anyone know the messiah2 enough to tell me the purpose of the V point? If it only "corrects" PSone video output, then i'll gladly disconnect it.
Also, if I did the color fix on my NTSC PS2 ("color fix point" to "3,45 NTSC point" on Charlie's installation V7 M2 PDF), would it solve the problem or is that a complete different matter?
Please let me know,

Alcahest

[Alcahest]

Major discovery regarding this problem.
It is indeed due to the Messiah2 chip on my US NTSC V7 :
I take an Original US NTSC PSone game : FFVIII.
(the flickering effect can be seen particularly well in FFVIII's title screen (with NEW GAME / Continue for those who want to try for themselves))
- If I boot it in the M2 "Psone game" way (in standby mode, i press reset until the blue eject light comes, then the PS game boot) >> I have the flickering problem.
**BUT**
- if I disable the Messiah2 (in standby mode, press reset for 5 seconds, past the blue eject light) >> The same PSone game is displayed PERFECTLY, no flickering.
I'm doing this test with a RGB SCART cable. Cinch (composite) quality may not be good enough to see a difference.
Please guys tell me how to fix this! I got a workaround for PSone originals but i've many imports (jap) I'd love to see working the same way.
It would be silly to install an extra wire for a NeoKey (to play PSone imports in true 60Hz with the M2 disabled) in a *MESSIAH2* chipped V7 , now wouldn't it?
Later,

Alcahest

[Alcahest]

Bumpage

[messiahfan2003]

Do the color fix and that might solve the problem.

[Alcahest]

thanks for your answer messiahfan, i feel less lonely
I just tried the Color Fix as seen in Charlie's M2 installation guide for V7, but I couldn't see any difference at all.
I think the color fix is meant to force the display of pal ps1 games in NTSC on NTSC consoles and force NTSC ps1 games to be displayed in PAL on PAL consoles. Ie: for people whose TV doesn't support both signals, to manage to have all games in color.
My problem is completely unrelated to a color problem, the fact is that NTSC ps1 games (originals, imports jap, backups) are NOT in true NTSC (=60hz) anymore after the M2 install (my board is GH19 btw).
So~~~ I decided to experiment Charlie's trick (switch on "V" point) and the "V" point is indeed the culprit!
When it's disconnected, it's like the M2 is disabled, so of course NTSC psone games are back to true NTSC display, no flickering, marvellous, BUT then the PS2 doesn't boot psone backups/imports anymore (obviousy)
I couldn't try to install a SWITCH as such, so I don't know yet how it would behave if i did the following :
Boot the PS2 in PSone mode with the switch set to ON (connected) so that the ntsc ps1 backup/import will boot, and RIGHT AFTER the booting sequence, set the switch to OFF to disable the M2 to have the correct "true NTSC/60Hz" signal...
I have my hopes up, I will try soon.
I noticed that Erv from this thread has exactly the same problem too http://www.ps2newz.net/forums/showth...threadid=12240
Charlie_ps2, please come back and enlighten me before I try something silly
Later,

Alcahest

[Relayer]

Search your TV set for a vertical hold control, either within the front panel or the rear cabinet.
If you don't find one, you could open the back of the set up to see if there's a V-Hold pot on the main board.
Failing all that, then your TV could be modified to switch between 60 and 50Hz, but it requires a schematic diagram of your telly.
If you can provide one, I might be able to tell you how to modify it.
Regards,
Relayer

[Alcahest]

Hi Relayer,
Thanks a lot for your answer. Unfortunately, you're not even in the ballpark, I mean your answer is completely unrelated to the problem. This has nothing to do with my TV which pretty much accepts any possible signal. The screen is not rolling, but shaky/flickering. It's a Messiah2 problem which causes the PS2 to switch its frequency to a weird value while playing NTSC PSone games. There is no flickering when the messiah is disabled/removed, which proves the origin of the problem.
Gradius, Charlie, N£TM£ÇH, someone with technical M2 knowledge, please help ^^
Later,

Alcahest

[Alcahest]

Ok, i got my PS2 wide open before me and i'm aout to install the switch on the V point.
I'll report here in an hour max, hopefully with a "Yaye it's WORKING".
Later,

Alcahest

[Alcahest]

Ohhh nozzz.. it's not working.
When I set the switch to OFF (V disconnected) after booting the Psone NTSC backup/jap import, the flicker on the screen doesn't turn off (
It seems as if the Messiah2 is telling the PS2 to display the NTSC Psone game in the weird frequency DURING the boot sequence.
So switching the M2 off after the boot sequence doesn't change anything. I guess some changes in the Messiah2 code could correct this.
In the meantime, i'm looking for a temp fix.
Does anyone know if a Neokey will allow Psone NTSC imports/backups to direct boot on a V7? I know it worked on a V3 but I don't know if Sony did anything to prevent it from working on a V7.
So that I can leave the M2 "ON" for EVERYTHING except for Psone NTSC imports/backup for which i'll use the Neokey.
Please let me know
Later,

Alcahest

[Alcahest]

hehe i'm writing a ****ing novel it seems
Anyway, update :
I couldn't resist and tried to install a Neo Key on my V7.
What i did was : i disconnected the Scex point from the messiah and put a wire between the scex point on the board and the USB point.
Then i tried to boot, switched off the messiah by reseting >5 secs.
Unfortunately it seems the neokey doesn't kick in: it won't boot psone backups or psone original imports, the ps2 gives a RSOD. So Neokey is a no-go for this problem on V7.
Now.. i read that the M2 has one feature which purpose is to display Pal psone games fullscreen on NTSC system. And i'm actually thinking that this features kicks in for Ntsc psone games too (although it shouldn't as they're already centered) and causes the problem.
So if there is a wire on the messiah2 responsible for this particular feature, i would like to disconnect it and see what it gives.
Man, I so wish Charlie was there, he would come up with something in the vein of "yeah sure, remove point N" and i'd be set in 2 seconds
This problem seem to be common on all NTSC PS2 chipped with Messiah, I had a friend try and he confirmed it : when he disables the messiah2, his Psone NTSC games are not flickering anymore. Also, he tried to connect his PS2 to his tv in 3 ways : scart cable(rgb), cinch (composite) and S-VHS and he noticed the problem with everyone of them (so it's NOT cable related). He just never noticed it before (either he's blind or never plays Psone games I guess )
On another note, I wonder how the DMS3 behaves regarding this...
Charlie, please help!
In fact the Messiah is you, not the modchip
Later,

Alcahest