Identifying clones

[SunG]

hello i have question ..

how do u guys know Modchip X is a clone of Modchip Z and so on ?
I bet the clone makers dont advertise their product as "Ours is a clone of Mars" etc etc

Also is there a site that have the info about the function of those soldering points? I wish i can read more about the importance of those soldering points so i can troubleshoot myself. It's amusing when experience modders says "Check your points B,G,H,I". Where can I read about the functions of those points?

[EspeN]

I found out what those A,B,I,J wires and such mean on this forum.
If you compare a lot of modchip diagrams you will see they are very like.
Almost all chips use same letters except DMS chips that use something else.

Like, RESET and Z you know has something to do with RESET.
The bios points is on the bios points (usually 9 points)
Then you have POWER, either 3.3 or 5v (logic point)
Then you have GROUND (a point where can be anywhere. I never use GROUND on the diagrams, I use the point that I is best for that installasion)

Then you have the A,B,G,H,I,J points that are located another place on the board. These are for booting CD/DVD and such.

And the S point or SCEX is usually only for PS1 and is located same spot on every diagrams. (well, if not same spot, its located on a connected spot)

if ppl install a modchip and get black screen, you know it isnt the CD/DVD that is ****ed, but its most likely BIOS points.

If the Modchip boots, but give your RSOD and bootchip seems to "work", well then u know its the CD/DVD points to check.

If a chip is working very unstable, it can be ground or power issues.
you see?

regarding indetifying clones, you dont know whats a clone or not without getting the information i guess.
This forum is a good place to find such information.
Example, I didnt know that the m3 mushroom chip was a MI clone before I read it here. I would have found out though after installing it since it would prob say "matrix infinity 1.38" or something during boot.

[SunG]

that is very enlightening ... much appreciated Espen ..

[Cataulin]

so do you install clone chips exactly like their real counter parts?

[EspeN]

Usually clones have "own" diagrams, but they are 100% identical to the original diagram or almost. Maybe some clones took the effort to find alternative points so it dont look like a clone, but still u could use another diagram to fit them. Like Matrix Inf clones, they need H wire on PAL machines to work properly (or a lot of them do) but the original Matrix Inf state u only need H wire on NTSC. So it can differ some.

[Ex-Cyber]

I think the term "clone" is overused. It suggests that everyone is getting their CPLD/FPGA bitstreams and microcontroller programs ripped off left and right, and so you've just got a $20 chip that is basically a carbon copy of a $50 chip. That just doesn't seem especially likely to me; if that were what was happening, any "protection" that MI/CC tried to cook up for their firmwares would do nothing because they wouldn't be able to tell the difference. There are even cases where I've seen a chip called a "clone" of another chip when the actual silicon is completely different. The truth is that you can't tell just by looking at the chip or the board or the diagram that one chip is really a clone of another chip. To even really begin to look at that you would need to hook up a logic analyzer to your PS2 and see what the chip actually does (and even then you can't be 100% certain). That two chips use the same Actel ProASIC or Scenix chip only means that it could be a clone, because those chips are programmable. That two chips use the same points on the board means little because the signals that need to be manipulated are a result of the PS2's design more than the modchip's design. There aren't really that many reasonable ways to fake a correct disc authentication and patch the BIOS.

Some people, on the other hand, will just call a chip a "clone" if it uses the same techniques (regardless of whether any actual code or hardware design has been copied). This is silly, as the derisive way the term is used in the PS2 scene suggests that PS2 modmakers should enjoy patent-like rights for breaking a patented "protection" system, and if that were really enforced PS2 mods would probably all retail for $60+.

[Cataulin]

so this isnt a clone?

[cubistproject]

Divineo sold me that as original. :-)

Should be - no way to know for sure - magic produced a bunch of different 3.1s.

[Cataulin]

ah hey man you got the install diagram for that chip?

[cubistproject]

http://www.cubistchips.com/installs/PS2/MAGIC3/