Sony Soon to Force Gamers into Using HDMI

[bobbintb]

too many people bitching on here that they only have an sd tv to play their HIGH DEFINITION GAMING SYSTEM!

[indirect76]

There are PLENTY of HDTVs produced up until about 2007/2008 that do not have HDMI inputs. Plenty of folks are going to go out and get a new PS3-K thinking "It does everything". Sorry busters, it does not do Blu-ray output in HD. Have fun buying a new TV (because of a unnecessary bullshit reason that does not prevent what it is supposed to no less).

[ahou]

too many people bitching on here that they only have an sd tv to play their HIGH DEFINITION GAMING SYSTEM!

Don't think anyone was doing that.

[Shrek]

sp2, you are a very clever guy and obviously pretty intelligent. You dont have to call us names and brandish us all with the same brush. Most of us share your views but the insults really are not needed. If we all start to boycott Sony and not buy their consoles then we wouldnt get to play your fantastic emulators

[madcatz1999]

New PS3s will continue to output HD through the component cables for games (remember, the original core 360s didn't have HDMI output). Just not for movies. Which is the exact same thing that virtually every single Blu-ray and DVD player on the market has been doing for years.

[Pjanoo]

You people are retarded, It's called buying an older model.

[JugMuffin]

I was using an SDTV for my bedroom PS3. Stopped using the PS3 due to Sony's business practices and when I moved I just left the thing. I did, however, take the SDTV. It may be old and mono, but I have no reason to replace it for bedside DVDs. I would not have an HDTV now if not for the impending UHF switch to digital. I found a used CRT with built-in ATSC.

What looks like it hasn't come up much is the 480p/1080i TV issue. Currently you get 960x540 out of Blu-Ray over component. Supposedly this is all fine and good, but at what point might they drop that playback mode entirely? This is where the HDFury will come in handy, if you can find and afford one. Also keep in (irrelevant) mind that while even fewer people have them, there are EDTV's out there that will do 480i, 480p and nothing more. I have seen exactly one of these in real life.There may actually be games that simply do not display in 480. I can't find it but someone said a while back somewhere that one of the UFC games would just show a blank screen in 480.

Seemingly "harmless" things like how a game system is handled have such far-and-wide reaching effects that it really is of concern. Everyone loves cutting out the middle man, but many of you and your friends *are* middle men. If you cut the middle man out of the economy entirely, where does that leave employment? The article about corporations offshore-ing everything is something everyone should think about. Just because you haven't been cut doesn't mean you can't be. You may hate GameStop, but they employ a lot of people. Even Sony themselves are a middleman... but they employ a lot of people directly and indirectly. Quit playing your video games for five minutes and r-e-a-d-a-b-o-o-k fanboys and people who ask stupid questions like, "Who the **** uses an SD television anymore?" Congratulations if your life revolves around being able to belittle other people over what is "good enough" for them.



*edit* what happened to my formatting?

[Killerko]

Am I the only one who kinda don't get it? How is it possible to output HD resolutions over the standard AV cable that is shipped with the PS3? Unless I was doing it wrong all the time but I was never able to output my ps3 in anything higher than standard 480p when using the default cable that came with it.. no matter if I connected it to sdtv or hdtv... so what is this all about? you wont be able to output HD over the default cable.. as I would be able to do so now.. and if you have HDTV you dont care because you will use HDMI anyway.. and if you (still) have SDTV the default cable is all you need anyway because you won't get anything bigger than 480p

[JugMuffin]

Am I the only one who kinda don't get it? How is it possible to output HD resolutions over the standard AV cable that is shipped with the PS3?

You have to have a set of component cables to do HD. The standard single yellow (with stereo white/red audio) composite cable that comes with a PS3 will not do anything other than 480i. For 480p/720p/1080i (and sometimes p) you have to use the red/blue/green component connectors, which are a separate purchase. Early HDTV's and a lot of projectors (and some monitors) used these inputs before DVI and HDMI made their way into the common market. Many flat screen TV's also have component inputs on them, and it seems some HD PVR's can record analog HD through component inputs.


*That's the way it currently works, though. The resolution limitation has been in the system for ages. There's got to be more to it than that. I believe I read that the rules say they have to restrict analog outputs to SD interlaced... maybe that's the big specific.
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

[tonybologna]

This article about component cables isn't completely true:

You’ll still be able to play games and watch movies in HD with HDMI or component cables, says Sony


Despite what was suggested by a leaked memo sent to GameStop stores yesterday, Sony has told ArsTechnica that the PS3 will not be discontinuing high definition support for component cables. PS3 owners will continue to be able to play games and watch movies in HD whether they connect their systems with HDMI or component cables.
Composite cables and their standard definition images will continue to be looked down upon with mild distain.

The memo, which was obtained by Kotaku , stated that Sony would begin shipping the new PS3 "K" chassis this week, and that GameStop employees should be aware of the changes so that they can advise customers of the HDMI cable requirement for HD output.
The most notable (real) change to the “K” chassis is that an HDMI connection will be required to play Blu-ray movies in their full resolution, which is in response to the Advanced Access Content System's Final Adopter Agrement (AACS ), a standard DRM for Blu-ray disks. The AACS new requirements state that by 2014, new Blu-ray players won't be allowed to support component ports.
Current PS3 and Blu-ray owners have nothing to worry about because the changes will only affect future models, but if a GameStop employee suggests you purchase a heavily marked-up HDMI connection, don't get suckered into it. Look on Amazon or Cable Train for a much better deal.

[themuse]

Originally Posted by GhostOfMork
Factoring in inflation, console games cost a lot less than they did in 1993. If I buy a big mac, and take a bite out of it, then want to sell it to someone else, it is my right, but the purchase would be less attractive to the second hand buyer due to the difference between the OEM and my second hand product. At least Sony is offering to restore the Big Mac to its original condition for a small fee.

Are people really disturbed that they have to pay money to access a service provided by a third party, when they haven't given that third party any money to begin with?

How many current model TVs have component inputs but no HDMI? There is a lot of bitching in this thread over nothing. Last time I read the charter on human rights, component output on a modern games console was not on there.

Oh and squarepusher, when I mentioned entitlement earlier I assumed it meant what most of the english speaking world thinks it means;

From Wikipedia
An entitlement is a guarantee of access to benefits based on established rights or by legislation. A "right" is itself an entitlement associated with a moral or social principle, such that an "entitlement" is a provision made in accordance with legal framework of a society. Typically, entitlements are laws based on concepts of principle ("rights") which are themselves based in concepts of social equality or enfranchisement.

I didn't realize it was invented by corporations for their propaganda so you'll have to excuse my ignorance.

Sorry, not going to waste my time with you any more. You're going to be a good little slave to the industry, and nothing I say will ever dissuade you from doing just that. So all my time spent talking is really holding me up doing better stuff.

wow square i can believe the "point" this moron is trying to make sure you dont want to waste your time on a lost cause , but what the hell ill give it a try

, what a moron , first of all the psn service is supposed to be free with the purchase of the console , they can not now go back and try and charge you for something that was already sold to you as part of the console purchase agreement, this should be illegal ,
when you bought the ps3 you were promised that it came with FREE online service , there was never any fine print or stipulation printed on the box or no statement that the retailer of ps3 consoles were told to make to you that states that the FREE online service that is INCLUDED WITH THE PURCHASE OF THE CONSOLE , is contingent upon weather or not the games that you purchase for it are purchased new or used

also how do you compare a game with a bigmac with a bit taken out of it? , a used game is exactly the same and just as good as a new one ,and if there is anything missing ,like oh i dont know the ability to play it online , then that is because sony themselves removed it , so your big mac analogy could work but only if sony was the one that took that bite out of the big mac , not you , as you didnt do anything to your game to make it less attractive to a potential buyer , sony did , its like they took a bite out of that bigmac, and then ,as you say, were nice enough to charge you $10 dollars to put that bite that they took out of your big mac,that you bought ,back , so that you could sell it more easily
there charging you for something they took away from you in the 1st place , in your analogy the big mac has a bite out of it presumably because YOU bit it , but as of now the ability to playa used game online exists , so they would be taking that ability away and then charging you to return it ,just because you initialized the process by using the game and the code and making it expire doesnt mean it was you that did something that made the game physically less valuable , it was sony by their unfair practices and implementing a 1 time use code for online that did that not you,the consumer ,so your analogy is total FAIL , its not rocket science

also you argument about inflation doesnt work as a response to square saying that the move to optical media like cd and dvd instead of carts was promised to lower game prices for consumers , because it totally didnt , yea sure it saved alot of money , saved them alot of money, which they never ended up passing even 1 cent of that savings on to consumers and certainly not the 30-40 dollares they promised , infact games have gone up in price since their move to discs ,games were 40-50 on cart , now they cost 60-70 dollars for most new games on discs , you were being grossly overcharged then and you still are now , cart or no cart

and as to tvs not having hdmi but having a component , there are other scenarios , like me for example ,i have a 50" plasma i bought i 09 it has component ans hdmi , but my tv is hanging on 1 wall and my stereo receiver ,cable box, dvr, and ps3, and other game systems and components are on a shelf built in to another wall , and i use my a/v receiver to switch between input for my tv , i dont use my tv speakers, i have a cambridge soundworks 5.1 speaker system and an onkyo reciver , so i can switch my video inputs to my tv and have the audio from those sources play on my surround speaker in dolby 5.1 ,i am perfectly happy with my receiver , but it only has component inputs and outputs and spdif optical for surround sound input , so i can not use hdmi unless i buy another receiver, my receiver is not that old and i paid $600 for it, and i am not ready to buy another 1 , my tv is connected to my tv with component, and my comcast digital cable only puts out 1080i note p which component cable can handle five , so i would have to buy a new receiver just for blu ray and 1080p games ,my hd tivo same thing obviously since cable tv is only 1080i , so i would have to buy a whole new receiver, i could buy a really long hdmi and use the input button on the tv remote to switch from my receiver to my ps3 ,but it would involve buying an expensive hdmi cable and routing it through walls and my attic ,like already did with the component cable when i set up my system, point is there are plenty of reasons people still would want component output

[ahou]

also you argument about inflation doesnt work as a response to square saying that the move to optical media like cd and dvd instead of carts was promised to lower game prices for consumers , because it totally didnt , yea sure it saved alot of money , saved them alot of money, which they never ended up passing even 1 cent of that savings on to consumers and certainly not the 30-40 dollares they promised , infact games have gone up in price since their move to discs ,games were 40-50 on cart , now they cost 60-70 dollars for most new games on discs , you were being grossly overcharged then and you still are now , cart or no cart

Not sure you understand what inflation is. $60 now is cheaper than $40 in 1990. $50 in 1990 is about equal to $83 now. Games ARE cheaper now than they were in the past. They may not be as cheap as they could be, but to say they are not cheaper than they used to be, is simply wrong.

[GhostOfMork]

, what a moron , first of all the psn service is supposed to be free with the purchase of the console , they can not now go back and try and charge you for something that was already sold to you as part of the console purchase agreement, this should be illegal ,
when you bought the ps3 you were promised that it came with FREE online service , there was never any fine print or stipulation printed on the box or no statement that the retailer of ps3 consoles were told to make to you that states that the FREE online service that is INCLUDED WITH THE PURCHASE OF THE CONSOLE , is contingent upon weather or not the games that you purchase for it are purchased new or used

....

and as to tvs not having hdmi but having a component , there are other scenarios , like me for example ,i have a 50" plasma i bought i 09 it has component ans hdmi , but my tv is hanging on 1 wall and my stereo receiver ,cable box, dvr, and ps3, and other game systems and components are on a shelf built in to another wall , and i use my a/v receiver to switch between input for my tv , i dont use my tv speakers, i have a cambridge soundworks 5.1 speaker system and an onkyo reciver , so i can switch my video inputs to my tv and have the audio from those sources play on my surround speaker in dolby 5.1 ,i am perfectly happy with my receiver , but it only has component inputs and outputs and spdif optical for surround sound input , so i can not use hdmi unless i buy another receiver, my receiver is not that old and i paid $600 for it, and i am not ready to buy another 1 , my tv is connected to my tv with component, and my comcast digital cable only puts out 1080i note p which component cable can handle five , so i would have to buy a new receiver just for blu ray and 1080p games ,my hd tivo same thing obviously since cable tv is only 1080i , so i would have to buy a whole new receiver, i could buy a really long hdmi and use the input button on the tv remote to switch from my receiver to my ps3 ,but it would involve buying an expensive hdmi cable and routing it through walls and my attic ,like already did with the component cable when i set up my system, point is there are plenty of reasons people still would want component output

What has changed? The PS3 still has a free service called PSN. All games that have been sold with the promise of free online will still have it. This is a NEW product with a NEW EULA. For someone who comments on legality of actions you have a very poor grasp of the reality. Even when these games come out, your PS3 will still connect to the PSN for free. But the new product which this game is will have a different set of conditions.

Hell, are you going to bitch about Final Fantasy XIVs business model? Because you have to pay every month to play that, but strangely there is no 18+ page bitch thread about it. Tens of millions of people pay more than the cost of these online passes to play World of Warcraft every month, where is your outrage at the greedy corporate pigs of Blizzard/Activision?

Regards the component output, you already have a PS3, so you won't be affected by any of that, and apparently it only affects high def output from new model PS3s that aren't even on the shelf yet, and only for Bluray playback for that matter.

One last thing, if you read the EULA that you agree to when you first power on your PS3 you should realize that they have covered their legal options in regard to removing features.

[ahou]

That's because nobody gave a shit about Final Fantasy 14 - and it flopped - big time.

The amount of fail arguments you make never ceases to end.

Not to mention they still haven't charged any fees, since they realized their game sucked too much to get people to pay a monthly fee for it.

[NuclearAqua]

One last thing, if you read the EULA that you agree to when you first power on your PS3 you should realize that they have covered their legal options in regard to removing features.

LOL, yet another EULA paladin.

Let me tell you something pal: EULA are worth less than toilet paper in the courtroom. I don't know if you're aware of that, but there is a hierarchy in the law area. No EULA shall surpass a law, and laws say that you bought a product with X characteristics and functions that were announced, and that you can't be deprived of them during the lifespan of that product. So yeah, it was ILLEGAL for Sony to remove OtherOS, and it will be ILLEGAL for Sony to remove HD output through component cable in existing models.

No matter how bad corporations want to cover their asses by using ridiculously long EULAs, it won't have any effect.

[GhostOfMork]

Besides this being the wrong thread for this discussion, it doesn't matter how you want to interpret PSN access. PSN access is still and for the foreseeable future free. Access to the online component for these new games is free, for the people who buy the games from the original producers. Do you think you should get free warranty service from sony when you buy a ps3 second hand off of ebay?

And no where has said that component high def output is being removed from any current ps3, unless you count squarepusher2.

[NuclearAqua]

Besides this being the wrong thread for this discussion, it doesn't matter how you want to interpret PSN access. PSN access is still and for the foreseeable future free. Access to the online component for these new games is free, for the people who buy the games from the original producers. Do you think you should get free warranty service from sony when you buy a ps3 second hand off of ebay?

And no where has said that component high def output is being removed from any current ps3, unless you count squarepusher2.

Sony also said that only Slims would have no OtherOS, and a few months later they removed it in all models. So yeah, blame me for not trusting them.


And wtf are you talking about, that whole warranty thing? You still have what's left of the warranty. If the PS3 is 6 months old, you still have 6 months left of warranty. That is, if you're on the US. Here in Portugal all products must have 2 years of warranty, not 1.

These Online Passes have no excuse to exist. Why the hell does Sony want to charge another 10$ to play online? Didn't the original buyer already paid all server costs when he bought the game?

[GhostOfMork]

Didn't the original buyer already paid all server costs when he bought the game?

I've already answered this in the other thread but the short answer is no. The fact is, it's a new product coming out, with new terms for its use. If you don't agree with the terms, or if for some perverse and unfathomable reason you see console games as some sort of prudent "investment" then you are free to not buy the games. This is the most laughable part of all this, people are getting so bent out of shape over computer games. This situation has been the norm on PC for over a decade now with single use registration keys.

And why the hell wouldn't Sony want to charge another $10 dollars from people who didn't buy the game from them for said people to use their private property (game servers). You own your console, you own the physical disc and have a license to use it, but if that license doesn't include the online component then where is your leg to stand on?

[themuse]

Sorry, not going to waste my time with you any more. You're going to be a good little slave to the industry, and nothing I say will ever dissuade you from doing just that. So all my time spent talking is really holding me up doing better stuff.

YOUR SPENDING POWER HAS BEEN GOING DOWN RAPIDLY SINCE THEN.

So no, try again.

that is only a couple of games and if you ask me they shouldnt be able to do that, sony should not licence games that make you pay a seperate fee to play online
but this is totally different because the console was sold to you with the promise that it would have a free online service for playing games against other people online for free , but now they want to make it so that you have to pay to play online with ALL games that are purchaed used , they didnt say when you bought the console that only games you bought new would have free access to their free online service ,and that ALL games you buy used would have a code that forces you to pay to play them online ,
theses corporations get away with shit like this cause of people like you ,people let them get away with shitting on them so they do it all the more and come up with bolder ways and more extreme and daring in your face ways of fuking you over , if people spoke up and complained and botcott maybe they would think twice
like netflix , nobody complained during the month long psn outage that they couldnt access a service they were paying for , and then all the other times psn went out that they couldnt use their service, people should have called and complained and threatened a boycott and to cancel their service if they didnt make their service psn independant but now instead of doing that what do they do? they decide to go up on their price by 100% the service is going from $8 to $16 WTF !!! and i bet people will just lay down and pay it and not even complain ,prices are supposed to go down not up, and certainly not double !!,****in greedy c0ck suckers
that is some fukin balls though to just arbitrarily go up on your customers rates by double for no reason , just randomly double everyones bill ,it just shows the arrogance and greed of these assholes , i cant fukin believe these people , like at&t and verizon now , they are getting rid of their unlimited data plans,so now you have pay by the minute for internet on your phone .shit is going backwards .like they are trying to do in canada with internet access,like back in the day when there was dial up and aol charged you by the minute for internet access, they want to go back to that so fukin bad, and im afraid they might just get their way if people dont get the heads out or their asses and stand up to this kind of shit,their already getting away with it for cell phone internet service, even people who already have at&t or verizon or netflix are not immune , they will not even be grandfathered in to the old pricing, they know there are bunch of fukin corporate sycophant morons out there like you who will stand for this shit so they do it all the more ,its fukin disgusting , and i totally understand squares frustration with people like you , because it is fuking things up for the rest of us ,because there are people out there who will willingly submit to this sort of shit, gouging and abuse, then the rest of us who are outraged and pissed have to have it forced on us too

[ahou]

like netflix , nobody complained during the month long psn outage that they couldnt access a service they were paying for , and then all the other times psn went out that they couldnt use their service, people should have called and complained and threatened a boycott and to cancel their service if they didnt make their service psn independant but now instead of doing that what do they do? they decide to go up on their price by 100% the service is going from $8 to $16 WTF !!! and i bet people will just lay down and pay it and not even complain ,prices are supposed to go down not up, and certainly not double !!,****in greedy c0ck suckers
that is some fukin balls though to just arbitrarily go up on your customers rates by double for no reason , just randomly double everyones bill ,it just shows the arrogance and greed of these assholes

You might want to get a clue. The prices aren't doubling for netflix, they are going up by 50% for those that use both streaming and in mail dvds. For those that just want to stream, the price is the same, and those that just want dvds, the price is going down.

And more importantly, they aren't just randomly increasing their prices for no reason. They are increasing their prices because once their contracts expire, they are going to have to pay 5-10x more than what they do now to offer their content. When their prices go up by 5-10x, you have no right to complaint that yours are going up by 1.5x. They will soon be making far, far less profit than they used to. That's not greed, that's staying in business.

If you want someone to blame, blame the movie corporations, that are going to be demanding hundreds of millions from netflix to offer their content.