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  • Dongle Wars - The Scene vs TB/Cobra

    Recently, one very hot topic going around the scene is the discussion of True Blue and Cobra dongles, and whether they are good or bad. It has become a war of sorts, which has divided up the communities of the PS3 scene. Users are calling each other names, and are using labels such as pirate to describe fellow users. We here at PSX-Scene are 100% against bashing/bullying, and believe it to be an issue in the current PS3 scene that is not acceptable. There should be no bashing of Sites/People/Teams.


    To better understand the current state of the PS3 scene, let me take you back to the beginning. It all started with the release of a dongle that cost a couple hundred bucks, which lacked any quality security and was soon reverse engineered. So after that, the market was flooded with dongle clones, which everyone used to Jailbreak there PS3's on 3.41 OFW.

    Near the end of the 3.41 dongle era, a new dongle that offered more options for PS3 users was announced, the Cobra USB; which, if you had a backwards compatible PS3, you could now run PS1 and PS2 backups. Soon after, geohot used fail0verfl0w's tools and was able to bring the first 3.55 CFW to the public. Followed by backup enabled CFW shortly thereafter. Cobra USB soon followed suit with the release of 3.55 method, which allowed for better backup support than any other CFW.

    And then the True Blue dongle came out which allowed users to play the backups of newer games; games that Sony had successfully prevented users of CFW from playing. But with one major problem, you need special dics in order to play most some of the games, while others are playable via patches. The problem with the disc method is that the discs can become hard to come by, leaving users waiting for the latest patches. Unlike the Cobra dongle, the TB dongle does not offer any better backup support than the rest of the CFWs; well, except for the fact of playing newer backups.

    Now comes the big question. Are dongles like this a good thing or a bad thing? It basically comes down to personal opinion, but it is important in this day an age to make your own opinions instead of having them made for you.

    Pros:
    • This scene started because of a dongle.
    • These dongles allow for more options than the free options.
    • They are keeping the scene moving.
    • One day could be reversed and open sourced.
    • It is better than nothing.


    Cons:
    • They are not free, and neither is the information surrounding them (not open source).
    • They promote piracy.
    • They are moving the scene in the wrong direction.
    • Strong securities, and cracking it is expensive and time consuming.
    • Need special discs, or wait for patches. Discs not always available.


    The Dongles:
    • PS Jailbreak allowed for the very first homebrew to be made, as well as backup support. The primary function, backups.
    • Cobra USB allows for better back compatability, as well as PS1 and PS2 back support for BC models. Also, backup support for DVD/BR. Primary function, backups.
    • True Blue allows newer games to be played. Some require a patch, while others require a special disc. Primary function, backups.


    My opinion, what the hell does it matter why we are here, and if someone pirates or not. What people do with their money and life is their own damn business. If we really want to stop these dongles makers, then the work is going to need to be reverse engineered it and make it open source. After that, they would not be able to continue to monopolize the scene. Perhaps that would also force their hand, and they would reveal more tricks hidden up their sleeves; but on the other hand, Sony might be able to patch it easier. In the mean time, the best thing we can do is support the developers, and as a community we can hopefully all make some great progress and advancements.

    My thoughts; well, all the dongles are possibly the work of one person/team. They did not mean for the original dongle to be cracked so easily. They could possibly have more "secrets" they are waiting to release for the PS3. They are most likely watching the scene as closely as Sony, and Sony has been watching pretty damn close it seems. All that we know is there is someone out there with a lot more information than anyone else and they are not sharing. But perhaps they are in there own way, and perhaps our actions as communities will affect the outcome of future releases by this mystery team; what if they leave, then who really won?

    The bottom line is we as a scene need to stop fighting with each other. The only way to progress is to come together and share information. This needs to be the welcome place it was back when I first joined in September 2010. Reversing the PS Jailbreak is what made this scene. Reversing the Cobra/TB could be what breaks it. The war should not be between users, but between man and machine!

    So there it is, some pros and cons. I'm sure there are a ton of other issues left off this list too. What is your opinion on the Dongle Wars and where they are headed?
    Comments 122 Comments
    1. brakk3n's Avatar
      brakk3n -
      Quote Originally Posted by chibiwings View Post
      fuelling the drama again?
      You can provide all the fuel you need, but without the right material it will not burn.
    1. zzk2001's Avatar
      zzk2001 -
      Quote Originally Posted by spok View Post
      same here & i always repeat that i never had problem 2 buy a dongle, but refuse 2 end up with anothers collecting dust & since i dont have time 2 play all day, instead of buying another console i have a gaming book 4 new games with 3 online, so i use my PS3 only 4 watchin MKVs, playin exclusive & PSN games if TV is not occupied
      So true lol The only thing i use my PS3 for now is PSN games and streaming PS3 Media server for my movies/tv shows.

      I think with my Vita i will stay on OFW as i just don't feel like playing the cat and mouse games anymore plus i kind of want to see how the new COD online is going to be If anything does come out of the Vita with Hombrew/CFW/etc i may just save up for another one just for that.
    1. krytonic's Avatar
      krytonic -
      Quote Originally Posted by Goku1992 View Post
      [snip] So are they morally wrong for making people pay for the dongle? [snip]
      When they are deliberately making money from piracy, yes it is morally wrong.
    1. chibiwings's Avatar
      chibiwings -
      Quote Originally Posted by brakk3n View Post
      You can provide all the fuel you need, but without the right material it will not burn.
      it got all it need.

      Topics like this + stagnant Scene = Drama lol

      It's a slap on the face for every sceners. i bet Math is laughing also.. hell yeah.
    1. brakk3n's Avatar
      brakk3n -
      Quote Originally Posted by chibiwings View Post
      it got all it need.

      Topics like this + stagnant Scene = Drama lol

      It's a slap on the face for every sceners. i bet Math is laughing also.. hell yeah.
      I've known Math for a very long time now and know he doesn't give two shites if you're fighting over Dongles or talking about peace, love and pretty flowers. He said what he had to say and left the rest of these idiots to bicker by themselves. He has many good reasons why not to release the methods or codes needed to fully exploit the PS3 and the main one being JAIL as Sony has turned devs into spies and there is no one you can trust anymore. He is smart for not releasing anything public or not. What gets me kicks is that kanjaroo k0akak0kr0z or whatever who said he would release the HEN for PS3, but it required something from Math. He said this knowing that Math was not going to give it to him and when that happened he wrote up a whining letter on how he could have the HEN, but Math isn't supplying him the info needed to run unsigned code on > 3.55. What an idiot. I still laugh at it.

      About these Dongles and the whining - it's all coming from CFW whores who think they know the scene and cry about it on a daily basis due to their butt-hurt moderator their young asses are inlove with that Rasputty jerk.

      Hum, I think forgetting the catlitter at the store got me a little arsed. Heh. Anyway, Math is good people - just not good people to whining leechers and TrueYellow, Blue, Red, Cobra, Rattlesnake - whatever you want to call them aren't hurting anyone in the scene other then the sidelines who want everyting for free so they can play their warez for free. So don't pull the moral or policital cards - they won't work. You all want what the Dongles do and what they do is let you play pirated shit. End of story.

      Now I have to go back to the damn store for these freaking felines! ARGH!
    1. chibiwings's Avatar
      chibiwings -
      i've read that story too about math and kakar0t but i got tired about it. irritating kids that demands something from hobbyist devs on the scene. i dont care about pirated stuffs i can just buy the game off the store if i want it but the scene is focusing too much on the CFW.
    1. PRiME's Avatar
      PRiME -
      My only grip is they are too costly for what they are, I understand some work is involved in make the debug patch files work with games but this is really nothing major and we are just paying them $60usd for a device that enables DRM for debug patches which have been stolen from the debug servers somehow.

      If TB start adding in more features like what Cobra have then that may be ok but atm they are stealing debug patches and selling them on their DRM device! How can people argue that's a good thing? do the developers get any percentage of this money? I bet not!
    1. Gradius's Avatar
      Gradius -
      Actually those guys would just unite to make the best of both worlds.
    1. Unfinity's Avatar
      Unfinity -
      I don't have a problem with Cobra other than the fact that it requires the use of their CFW and it will kill itself if I try to **** with the system(something I do). I would gladly pay whatever they charge for a dongle in exchange for a CFW which supports their feature set without their "kill switch".

      TB I have a problem with. I admit that I'm not much of a gamer and the games I play are PS2 or older. I have no personal interest in there being a free solution to playing 3.60+ games. My problem with TB is that it helps Sony make their case that jailbreaking/modding/whatever is about piracy. For some people, yes this is true. For others, like myself, it's about being able to do what you want with hardware that you paid for. I use my PS3 for homebrew almost exclusively(emulators and Showtime). I do not agree with piracy and I do not appreciate Sony or anyone else suggesting otherwise simply because I want to do more with my console than they want me to do with it.

      I'm so tired of this topic...
    1. brunomocsa's Avatar
      brunomocsa -
      this post was perfect, showed the security pros of dongles but the not opensource cons.
      Im with the freedom of the free and opensource CFW. I believe that in future someone will reverse the dongles and put it in a CFW or similar.
      And i still believe in kakaroto and the 4.00 CFW
    1. gsgm's Avatar
      gsgm -
      Quote Originally Posted by brakk3n View Post
      I've known Math for a very long time now and know he doesn't give two shites if you're fighting over Dongles or talking about peace, love and pretty flowers. He said what he had to say and left the rest of these idiots to bicker by themselves. He has many good reasons why not to release the methods or codes needed to fully exploit the PS3 and the main one being JAIL as Sony has turned devs into spies and there is no one you can trust anymore. He is smart for not releasing anything public or not.
      Care to elaborate? This is VERY interesting and could be a legit answer to all those people claiming there aren't any conspiracies in the PS3 scene.
    1. vtsm's Avatar
      vtsm -
      I agree that the scene should be free... but, as we've seen hapening, if the dongles get reversed engineering, sony will patch the method. So whats the point?

      I hope it stays as it is.
    1. krytonic's Avatar
      krytonic -
      Quote Originally Posted by vtsm View Post
      I agree that the scene should be free... but, as we've seen hapening, if the dongles get reversed engineering, sony will patch the method. So whats the point?

      I hope it stays as it is.
      You don't have to profit from something for a method to be kept secret.
    1. brakk3n's Avatar
      brakk3n -
      Quote Originally Posted by gsgm View Post
      Care to elaborate? This is VERY interesting and could be a legit answer to all those people claiming there aren't any conspiracies in the PS3 scene.
      In the past people working for Nintendo, Sega, Sony and/or Microsoft were easy to weed out and had a hard time getting info about the higher up devs and companies due to the fact they were apparently going about it all wrong. Sony was ready; waiting even to strike against the "scene" if it were to release exploits, hacks, etc ... and what made it easy for them to begin wtih is Geohot was a USA citizen who could be easily located within 5-10 minutes. Once Sony had him by the balls and with his cooperation other devs started to "vanish" and some were used to inflitrate private circles and those people and the before mentioned all paid a price be it monetary, criminal prosection and/or blackmail. The rest that didn't get caught up in Sony's traps just dropped their work and moved on to other things. Math was one of them. I cannot elaborate on exactly why he quit and I will just say to reffer to his comments on the matter and that is all you're going to get. You know when to not mess around when sites like this one are used in various court systems around the world to produce evidence against devs who either spoke up about being nabbed or the ones who could not due to terms of their court orders in the matter. Needless to say Math isn't releasing anything due to the fact Sony probably already knows the colors of his eyes and will swoop down on him in a heartbeat if he does. Sony seems that using money to influence the legal systems of countries to nab these heckers is the way to go and it was and still is very productive for them.

      If you want to play the blame game start at the Top with the RAT BASTARD geohot who sold out everyone he knew. That's where you start.
    1. thoughtspeak's Avatar
      thoughtspeak -
      My biggest and only issue with the dongles is that both cobra and TB are not easy to get hold of in the UK compared to all the old 3.41 dongles. I'm not sending my money all the way to china and I'm not waiting 2 weeks for delivery. I'm not expecting them to be offered at retail but I'm not purchasing unless it's a UK based seller and I get my dongle within 3-4 days of purchase.
    1. alechair's Avatar
      alechair -
      it's true that ps3 started thanks to a dongle = jailbreak.
      but i don't think it's right to pay for it.
      it's like geohot or failoverfl0w asking us to give them money for making a cfw.
      absolutely ridiculous!
    1. vodcas's Avatar
      vodcas -
      Quote Originally Posted by alechair View Post
      it's true that ps3 started thanks to a dongle = jailbreak.
      but i don't think it's right to pay for it.
      it's like geohot or failoverfl0w asking us to give them money for making a cfw.
      absolutely ridiculous!
      Perfectle example of people wanting everything for free.
      Who the **** are u, that believes u should be handed a free working cfw???

      this is exactly what i mean, when not only i but others say, when people things everything is magically owed to them.

      Pathetic, no wonder why all the devs left the scene.
    1. krytonic's Avatar
      krytonic -
      Quote Originally Posted by brakk3n View Post
      In the past people working for Nintendo, Sega, Sony and/or Microsoft were easy to weed out and had a hard time getting info about the higher up devs and companies due to the fact they were apparently going about it all wrong. Sony was ready; waiting even to strike against the "scene" if it were to release exploits, hacks, etc ... and what made it easy for them to begin wtih is Geohot was a USA citizen who could be easily located within 5-10 minutes. Once Sony had him by the balls and with his cooperation other devs started to "vanish" and some were used to inflitrate private circles and those people and the before mentioned all paid a price be it monetary, criminal prosection and/or blackmail. The rest that didn't get caught up in Sony's traps just dropped their work and moved on to other things. Math was one of them. I cannot elaborate on exactly why he quit and I will just say to reffer to his comments on the matter and that is all you're going to get. You know when to not mess around when sites like this one are used in various court systems around the world to produce evidence against devs who either spoke up about being nabbed or the ones who could not due to terms of their court orders in the matter. Needless to say Math isn't releasing anything due to the fact Sony probably already knows the colors of his eyes and will swoop down on him in a heartbeat if he does. Sony seems that using money to influence the legal systems of countries to nab these heckers is the way to go and it was and still is very productive for them.

      If you want to play the blame game start at the Top with the RAT BASTARD geohot who sold out everyone he knew. That's where you start.
      Saying geohot sold out everyone is pure speculation. You assume he did because of everything that had happened but you have no solid evidence. It is because of people like you that the court system is a joke. Don't use him as a scapegoat without actual evidence and stop acting like scum and get back on topic.

      Quote Originally Posted by vodcas View Post
      Perfectle example of people wanting everything for free.
      Who the **** are u, that believes u should be handed a free working cfw???

      this is exactly what i mean, when not only i but others say, when people things everything is magically owed to them.

      Pathetic, no wonder why all the devs left the scene.
      A perfect example of someone waiting for someone else to expect something for free to jump on it as it is their only defense they have for TB.

      Not everyone who is against them is cheap. A couple weeks ago I spent £200 on a new PS3 instead of £80 on a TB dongle. Am I cheap too because I don't think they should be selling them? Does that mean I expect everything for free even though I spent over double of the price as the dongle on something else instead?

      I ask you this. If Sony added a kill switch in later firmware so that if you tried anything with your PS3 that they don't approve of they brick it, would you tolerate that? Would you be pissed off at them and call them scum? Yes? Funny how you bend over for TB who have done it.

      I've tried to avoid directly pointing at someone in this thread but your ignorance amazes me.
    1. vodcas's Avatar
      vodcas -
      [QUOTE=A perfect example of someone waiting for someone else to expect something for free to jump on it as it is their only defense they have for TB.

      Not everyone who is against them is cheap. A couple weeks ago I spent £200 on a new PS3 instead of £80 on a TB dongle. Am I cheap too because I don't think they should be selling them?[/QUOTE]

      Wow, good for you, did i even mention you??? where i referring to you?? no!!
      I was referring to the other kid, and yes, his comment is a perfectle example of so many in this pathetic scenes expects everything is magically owed to them.

      Now i personally dont give less if u bought a second ps3. good for u. now u probably think u are morally on the right site.

      anyway, yes i still stand, 99.9 % of the kids in this pathetic scene thinks everything is magically owed to them.

      we all know it. so pls for god sake dont deny it.
    1. krytonic's Avatar
      krytonic -
      Quote Originally Posted by vodcas View Post
      Wow, good for you, did i even mention you??? where i referring to you?? no!!
      I was referring to the other kid, and yes, his comment is a perfectle example of so many in this pathetic scenes expects everything is magically owed to them.

      Now i personally dont give less if u bought a second ps3. good for u. now u probably think u are morally on the right site.

      anyway, yes i still stand, 99.9 % of the kids in this pathetic scene thinks everything is magically owed to them.

      we all know it. so pls for god sake dont deny it.
      You're basically saying that a "minority" of people (ones who don't expect everything for free) should be taken advantage from something which should be free. This is your defense over and over.

      P.S. 99.9% of statistics are made up with no evidence.
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