Running PS2 Games From PS3 HDD

[2JZFAN]

Ok guys with the recent release of the Playstation 2 Hard Disk Drive support and the size of this community where are we on getting PS2 games to run from the PS3 HDD?


What do we need to do to get PS2 games to run from the HDD?
Where are people working on such things?
Where do these people talk about such things?


I've looked all over the net and found nothing about anyone trying anything..

I mean has anyone even tried the old MC exploit on the PS3..? I know it's far fetched but let's get some chat going on. If we discuss it maybe we can come up with something. With the lack of interesting titles currently available on the PS3 I'd love to get some PS2 ISOs on this beast.

[JNABK]

Yes, they have already tried the typical things, but none work. They have been able to boot apps on retail discs, like SwapMagic,HD Loader, etc.
MC exploit was fixed in the slim PS2 version.
SM boots ok, but theres no metheod to swap a disc thru the slot yet.
HD Loader boots ok, but cannot find the HDD.
There is talk all over the net, but not many people have the PS3, so patience is required. Some of the brilliant coders may not even have a PS3 yet.

[Breath of Fire]

PARADOX is working, its only been 1 month since release it took the XBOX 360 about 4 months just to get a video up let alone get released.

[2JZFAN]

Yes, they have already tried the typical things, but none work. They have been able to boot apps on retail discs, like SwapMagic,HD Loader, etc.
MC exploit was fixed in the slim PS2 version.
SM boots ok, but theres no metheod to swap a disc thru the slot yet.
HD Loader boots ok, but cannot find the HDD.
There is talk all over the net, but not many people have the PS3, so patience is required. Some of the brilliant coders may not even have a PS3 yet.

Thanks for the very informative post! To me it sounds like nothing more then HDL pressing a disc that can find the PS3HDD or emulated PS2HDD on PS3 HDD..? So all they need to do is map out the HDD and where things are and HDL should work with the PS3..? Let me ask you this, how do companies like Pelican and the makers of HDL press discs? Is there any place we can buy such discs? What is the process that goes into pressing them? With gothi and his people making way on PS2 saves from the PS3 and HDL botting on PS3 it sounds like it'll happen sooner then later.

Lastly, where did you find all this information out? If need be PM me because I'd love to get involved where I can.


PARADOX is working, its only been 1 month since release it took the XBOX 360 about 4 months just to get a video up let alone get released.

PARADOX released PS3 rips if I'm not mistaken.. I'm not so much worried about piracy, I'd like to run my backup PS2 discs from my PS3 HDD much like I use them on my PS2. I don't think this idea is entirely far fetched.. Further, this isn't the same situation as the 360 and in my opinion the PS3 is much more open then the 360 will ever be.

[JNABK]

Im not sure how those people aquired the "stamps" to press the discs, but im sure Sony has taken extreme measures to ensure it dont happen too easily this time around.

as for where i found the info, a lot right here in the PS3 Forums (http://www.ps2-scene.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=117), some at PS3News (although im not fond of them, they do spend a lot of time getting info others have to offer) , ps2hd.com (http://www.ps2hd.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=69) and sksapps.com (http://sksapps.info/forums/index.php?c=7). Theres a few other sites i dont recall offhand, but if i come across them, ill post them. Im sure once the PS3 is more readily available, more progress will be made at a faster pace. The real question is, what is Sony up to when they post the firmware updates!

[2JZFAN]

Im not sure how those people aquired the "stamps" to press the discs, but im sure Sony has taken extreme measures to ensure it dont happen too easily this time around.

Yeah see that's one thing that has always bothered me.. I always wondered how a silver HDL disc worked in a PS2. I mean if someone gave out that info we could work on burning our own discs.. I know about the bad sectors but I believe there's ways to burn them on a disc in linux.. Similar to how people rip 360 games if we could rip the entire disc raw we could mirror it in a burn.. custom software may have to be written to access parts of the disc but in theory it would work. I just can't imagine after all these years and all these insiders NO ONE ever explained how products like GS/CB/HDL boot as pressed discs..?

What about my theory on something like HDL working with mapping of the PS3HDD? If it can boot from a pressed disc.. they could make the changes release a new disc and we'd be on our way..

[JNABK]

The info the PS2 reads to authenticate the disc is pressed into the inner ring of the disc, there is no burner capable of duplicating this. This info is stamped into the disc.

mapping for HDL, i dunno. Maybe a new app will be easier, since Sony is well aware how HDL works by now.

[2JZFAN]

The info the PS2 reads to authenticate the disc is pressed into the inner ring of the disc, there is no burner capable of duplicating this. This info is stamped into the disc.

mapping for HDL, i dunno. Maybe a new app will be easier, since Sony is well aware how HDL works by now.

pressed? like region coding? can't region coding be written over in linux with the proper software? The burner can duplicate, it's the software we need written to write to the burner. I believe this software as well as a key from the official Sony discs is what allows GS/CB/HDA/HDL silvers to boot. If they created such software why isn't it out now? If there is no software what type of machine do you need to press such information into a CD? How did these companies get it?

Ok so we start a new app just like HDA/HDL which uses the PS3s file structure.. Rip some games to the HDD or send over some ISOs.. that simple? I'm surprised it hasn't been done already. I'd think the people capable would have ways to get a console.. :chinscrat

[JNABK]

I guess your still not getting it:
How it Works
The authentication system for the PlayStation 2 is twofold. When a disc is placed in the drive, the PlayStation 2 first checks the media type of the disc. After detecting mediatype the PS2 looks for an engraved barcode in the Burst Cutting Area (BCA) of the disc, a few centimeters from the hole in the middle of the disc. If the disc has this barcode, and the barcode matches the format of naming games (SCEx-XXXX), the disc check is finalized and the TOC of the game is loaded. If no engraving is found in the BCA, the PS2 will not boot the disc, unless it is a DVDR, and contains an encoded movie. (thus allowing home movie DVDs to be played on the PS2 as if it were a DVD player)

If you have a disc press, rather than a disc burner, you can press a game with a glass master, and give it a barcode in the BCA. The PS2 will then play the game or whatever homebrew with no problem. Like i said, i dont know how the people who have the 'stamp' or 'glass master' aquired it, but it how they press the discs to boot on a PS2.

[JNABK]

Heres the process to create the glass master and stamp:

Glass Master preparation of the 200 cm (8 inch) diameter 6mm thick glass master starts by stripping the old photo-resist from its surface (since the glass blanks can be recycled). This is followed by cleaning and final washing using de-ionized water. The blank master is then dried carefully and ready for the next stage. The surface of the clean glass master is then coated with a photo-resist layer 150 microns thick by spin coating. The uniformity of the layer is measured with an infra red laser. The photo-resist coated glass master is then baked at about 80 degrees Celcius for 30 minutes. This hardens the photo-resist layer ready for exposing by laser light.

Laser Beam Recording is where the photo-resist layer is exposed with laser light in a Class 1000 clean room-controlled environment using a blue gas laser directly from the source audio or CD-ROM data.

The photo-resist is exposed where pits are to be pressed in the final disc. The photo-resist surface is then developed to remove the photo-resist exposed by the laser and therefore create pits in the surface. These pits should extend right through the photo-resist to the glass underneath to achieve good pit geometries as specified in the Red Book. The glass itself is unaffected by this process.

The active surface (called the "father" - containing pits) of the developed glass master is then metallized either with silver by evaporation or a nickel or nickel alloy created by sputtering. The glass master is then played on a Disc Master Player (DMP) to check for any errors. Audio masters are actually listened to at this stage.

The final stage is then making the reverse image stamper or "mother". The mother is then form-pressed onto the extruded "children" membranes using high speed hydraulic presses. This membrane will ultimately contain all the binary information used to play the disc.



The finished compact disc that the customer receives is a combination of the child's membrane layer, an aluminum layer which reflects the laser light back up into the player, and a polycarbonate (plastic extrusion) outer shell. The final disc must be perfectly uniform and well balanced if the disc is to perform flawlessly.

[_zaphod_]

LOL

Ok, guys. this is silly.

When you try to rip the AR MAX disc, you will get a large number of unrreadable sectors. thesesectors in fact have the ps2 protection info in them.

If you can figure out what the contents of them are supposed to be, and burn them properly your burn will boot. Of course, that's easier said then done.

[JNABK]

Hmm........i dont know how that would even boot, since that would be a part of the TOC that gets read after the media check and authentication, AFAIK. Im not aware of any burner that could burn any code that the PS2 would read before accepting the disc as genuine.
I think that code is a copyright protection for the disc content, not for authentication, but i could be wrong.

[Mike4]

I guess your still not getting it:
How it Works
Like i said, i dont know how the people who have the 'stamp' or 'glass master' aquired it, but it how they press the discs to boot on a PS2.I saw one for sale on some site a couple years back. I can't remember the price exactly, but I'm thinking it was in the $7000 ballpark. I remember thinking how cool it would be to be able to make copies for myself so easily, but then I very quickly realized I would never come close to getting my money's worth.

[2JZFAN]

well thanks for the read, i've got a buddy at a recording studio. i did some research of my own and as it turns out many studios have such machines. long story short I spoke with him about it since he's the technician (he went to school to learn about this stuff) and he explained it to me. It's a pretty simple process and doesn't take much time.. if we can prepare the data he can do a small run. My only concern is that he claims he CAN identify the TOC information but NOT it's orientation.

I'd really like to know how products like GS/HDL/HDA etc were made.. he said for example one company may have read the info of a given official pressed release then by trial and error replicated it's orientation.. if this is how then i dunno but i'm going to take some discs down to him this week and see what we can find out.

[barf]

HD Loader boots ok, but cannot find the HDD.What about USB Extreme?

[TheChris]

I'd really like to know how products like GS/HDL/HDA etc were made.. he said for example one company may have read the info of a given official pressed release then by trial and error replicated it's orientation.. if this is how then i dunno but i'm going to take some discs down to him this week and see what we can find out.

From what I've read this is exactly how they did it. Apparently GS/HDL/HDA etc discs have the same layout as Crazy Taxi. I don't know why this game was chosen but it might just have been picked at random.

[2JZFAN]

What about USB Extreme?

i believe since the PS3 now uses USB2.0 the driver would be different.. since the consoles support USB2.0 the speed might be enough that the games run without a hitch. I hope the makers of USB Extreme are working on an update of their software because it would make things much easier. If we used the internal HDD we'd be either FTPing ISOs over to it or using an external HDD to copy them over. If USB Extreme can be adapted we'd just use external HDDs to store ISOs and load from. By eliminating a step you make the whole process more user friendly and marketable.. Marketing is important to them because they make money off these discs. I think there is such a lack of information from the powers that be is because they once paid the bills with this information and these discs. I honestly don't care who does it and or who makes $$$ I'd just like to hurry along the process.. at least strike up conversation to get people thinking.


From what I've read this is exactly how they did it. Apparently GS/HDL/HDA etc discs have the same layout as Crazy Taxi. I don't know why this game was chosen but it might just have been picked at random.

I believe it was one of the launch titles on the PS2? I agree randomly chose.. then once one of them mapped it out the others ripped the layout and replicated it with access to a mastering machine. The funny thing about this is that IF it is mapped and laid out just like the actual pressed release from SCE then SCE can't do anything about it. I know there was a time when PSX loaders no longer worked with new PSX consoles because they blocked it in firmware. They cannot block a game in firmware IF it's an exact copy because that would be reckless. I think the process these companies used was borderline software piracy but SCE never did anything about it allowing them to practice business all over the world including the US.

[TheChris]

I googled and found this info...

Wayne Beckett appears to be the man in charge of all things pirate-related at Fire. In a recent e-mail from the man himself, Beckett explains just how his PS2 products are made using the same illegal "Chinese copy" method that was used to join Ubi Soft's product with Sega's (and Sony's):

"The PS2 protection...is contained within the lead in area of a disc," says Beckett. "Therefore the Hong Kong company that produces our current masters came up with a rather ingenious solution. What they do is take an original (Crazy Taxi) disc. They somehow first take a copy, like a
photographic contact print of the CD. I guess they remove the polymer layer and take an image from the aluminium layer."



^ When you take the paint off Mad Catz's GameShark disc using metal polish, it is easy to see the same pirate copy of Crazy Taxi lurking in the inner area, and the place where the two titles join.

He goes on: "Secondly they take a normal master of our software and merge the two. Basically using the TOC (table of contents) of an original disc, but the data area of our own disc. You get an area where there are errors of course but that is no problem as there is no valid data in that area. The lazer simply seeks past the area with errors."

http://www.psxforum.com/forums/files/10206_1068587643.jpg

[2JZFAN]

I googled and found this info...

Wayne Beckett appears to be the man in charge of all things pirate-related at Fire. In a recent e-mail from the man himself, Beckett explains just how his PS2 products are made using the same illegal "Chinese copy" method that was used to join Ubi Soft's product with Sega's (and Sony's):

"The PS2 protection...is contained within the lead in area of a disc," says Beckett. "Therefore the Hong Kong company that produces our current masters came up with a rather ingenious solution. What they do is take an original (Crazy Taxi) disc. They somehow first take a copy, like a
photographic contact print of the CD. I guess they remove the polymer layer and take an image from the aluminium layer."



^ When you take the paint off Mad Catz's GameShark disc using metal polish, it is easy to see the same pirate copy of Crazy Taxi lurking in the inner area, and the place where the two titles join.

He goes on: "Secondly they take a normal master of our software and merge the two. Basically using the TOC (table of contents) of an original disc, but the data area of our own disc. You get an area where there are errors of course but that is no problem as there is no valid data in that area. The lazer simply seeks past the area with errors."

awesome! i was looking for that picture! i read the article but couldn't get a hold of the picture. the article also goes on to explain the bad sectors created by such a process. that article concerned me because if they have access to a mastering machine why not map and write a proper lead-in/out why manually copy from a pressed disc then layer your software over/after? I can't get my head around it.. it seems like something they know that we don't OR it may have just been a more cost effective way.

[_zaphod_]

Some time ago some "ps2 direct boot" docs were posted. they tell exactly what trick Datel used for their discs.

SOem info here is right. the SLUS number IS in fact encoded in the protection area. that's why all pirate discs are based off of original discs, and hae the same executable file (and ften volume name)

i dot' think anyone undrstands how to "roll their own" protection code yet, but existign ones can be copie,d provided the main exe is renamed to match the previous SLUS.

Datels trick was pretty clever. they used expensive hardware to aalyse the protection area, then came up with a weak sector pattern that when fed thru a scrambler, manged ot create an approximation of the original protection area! It was not perfect, but it was close enough to pass a lto of the time. even a perect AR dsc will sometime sfail to boot and give a red screen. this is because it's not a perfect copy of protection info.

[2JZFAN]

Some time ago some "ps2 direct boot" docs were posted. they tell exactly what trick Datel used for their discs.

SOem info here is right. the SLUS number IS in fact encoded in the protection area. that's why all pirate discs are based off of original discs, and hae the same executable file (and ften volume name)

i dot' think anyone undrstands how to "roll their own" protection code yet, but existign ones can be copie,d provided the main exe is renamed to match the previous SLUS.

Datels trick was pretty clever. they used expensive hardware to aalyse the protection area, then came up with a weak sector pattern that when fed thru a scrambler, manged ot create an approximation of the original protection area! It was not perfect, but it was close enough to pass a lto of the time. even a perect AR dsc will sometime sfail to boot and give a red screen. this is because it's not a perfect copy of protection info.

well thanks for the post, but you know i've gotta ask if you have the Datel files. if you do or anyone reading this does please PM me. The more information I can get, the more stuff I can figure out, the easier ir becomes, the closer we get to doing a run of our own silvers.

on another note does anyone know if CB v9.3 boots on the PS3? i've been waiting on a friend o bring his by but at this point i might just go pick it up. :banghead:

[_zaphod_]

The docs do NOT hae the files needed to make your own selfboot CDRs. they were delberately left out, to prevent mass piracy.

[2JZFAN]

The docs do NOT hae the files needed to make your own selfboot CDRs. they were delberately left out, to prevent mass piracy.

i didn't expect them :p but i'd like to give them a good read considering what we're trying to do here.

IF ANYONE CAN PROVIDE THESE DOCUMENTS PLEASE PM ME

[Ex-Cyber]

I'm not sure about the details for DVD protection (it's not BCA though; BCA barcodes are visible to the naked eye, and I don't see them on PS2 discs), but for CD (which is what almost all unlicensed PS2 discs are) the protection is nothing to do with bad sectors or barcodes. It's based on modulating a wave into the position of the track itself. The track veers back and forth from the center and the photodiode signal is fed into a special decoder that spits out a serial bitstream (this output is the so-called "SCEX" signal). A normal CD drive will just respond to the position change in the same way as it would for vibration, wobbling etc.

So it's not a question of using the right software to send the right data to the burner, because in that context the data in question doesn't even exist. There was some work toward using creative methods of damaging the disc (after it's been burned) to create interference patterns that are "close enough" to trigger the detector, but as far as I know success has been limited.

[Mike4]

Datels trick was pretty clever. they used expensive hardware to aalyse the protection area, then came up with a weak sector pattern that when fed thru a scrambler, manged ot create an approximation of the original protection area! It was not perfect, but it was close enough to pass a lto of the time. even a perect AR dsc will sometime sfail to boot and give a red screen. this is because it's not a perfect copy of protection info.Thank you for that. I have always wondered why my Gameshark doesn't work every time I try to boot it. Sometimes I would get the red screen multiple times in a row and get so frustrated. Luckily, I haven't had to really use it since loading the mc exploit.

[MelGibson]

IF ANYONE CAN PROVIDE THESE DOCUMENTS PLEASE PM ME

I think if you google for PS2_ZoneLoader_SRC+Direct-Boot_Docs.zip you will find what you want

[Liquidvlade]

on another note does anyone know if CB v9.3 boots on the PS3? :banghead:

yes it runs

- Liquidvlade Hiraduo

[Anunakin]

BDs have 256bits algorithm... crypt... yeah we need a huge grid... we can do a small soft to crack the keys ... or wait 10 years for it... in a single high end computer....

[_zaphod_]

the SCEX is the ps1 protection, not the ps2 protection.

With SCEX you don't have to copy an existign disc, you can just put the wobble groove into your master and presto, it boots. ddon't work on ps2. they improved it.

The original ps1 prot is, however completely burnproof, because atip wobble conflicts with protection wobble. SO that's why you cannot burn a selfbooting ps1 game.

[Illicious]

What about that HDL for external HDD via USB? Has anyone tried that yet?
Seems like that would be the mostly used PS3 loader since 3.5 drives are cheaper and can hold way more.

[guenthar]

Since CB works then you might not need a pressed disc of hdl to run it. You would just need to convert the hdl elf to run with cb like they are doing with other homebrew. With this someone will just need to update hdl with the ability to detect the hd in the ps3 or a usb hd.

[Ex-Cyber]

the SCEX is the ps1 protection, not the ps2 protection.

With SCEX you don't have to copy an existign disc, you can just put the wobble groove into your master and presto, it boots. ddon't work on ps2. they improved it.As far as I know, the same basic modulation scheme is used for both; the PS2 scheme just adds game-specific data to the mix (so that there's no longer a single universal sequence that will authenticate).

[CireDark]

With ISOs becoming more popular and more widely used, I suspect that they hold the key to the PS2 Region workaround for PS3. Save the ISO of the PS2 Game you want to play on the PS3's Hard Drive (Or USB Drive, or External Hard Drive, ect..)
Then, insert Magic Mythical Disc (that doesn't exist yet) into the PS3 that loads the ISO and forces the PS3 to play it.

I would happily still pay for the Hard Copies of the Imported games I want to play, and make the ISO Images myself.

Something like this (Particularly the software on the "Mythical" CD) couldn't be that hard, could it?

[Illicious]

Ide sure like to see PS1 games work off the HDD too. Been wanting that for the longest.

[NobodyKnows]

Another (difficult) solution would be the use of a ps1&2 software emulator.

You could port PCSX or epsxe over to ps3 oder something like that.

It was done before for the XBOX if I remember right...

[barf]

That is also a different interface from PS2 to PS3

[Illicious]

Just wanted to share:
Is GT HD Concept or whatever its called considered a PS2 or PS3 game?

Has anyone extracted this game partition from the PS3 to PC to examine its functions? Maybe there might be some clues on how to get games to run off the HDD with that.
I mean instead of waiting, you could try that. Of course you would have to get the HDD to connect to the PC somehow maybe with a external 2.5 sata enclosure.
Would be cool to edit thoes partitions and add them splash screens as GT has.
Just a thought.